What’s up my favorite people you are here with me it is tuesday it is 11 a.m that means it is
time for wdd live and it is time for a special wdd live karen says uh grabs an entire bucket of
popcorn i had to uh i’m doing a little self-therapy this morning saying you know like i was trying to
it’s it’s very difficult we’ll talk about context and all of that in a minute um here’s the thing i
didn’t want to look at at oxygen six i didn’t want uh i i did promise to look at bildarius but i didn’t
want to look at bildarius yet because the in my opinion like half of bildarius isn’t doesn’t exist
like it’s the all of the pro elements and whatnot like those are the things i’m actually interested
in i mean we can look at the surface level stuff um but you know the surface level stuff is very
similar to what’s going on everywhere else uh and so it’s you know you’ll see like i really want to
see the advanced stuff but the advanced stuff’s not ready so we can’t we can’t really look at it
uh but we can get general eyes on it whatever okay but i didn’t want to look at oxy six i did not want
um and and one of the reasons i didn’t want to look at oxy six is because um it’s it’s very difficult
to be nice about it it’s very difficult to be i feel like it’s a very i feel like it’s a disrespectful
offering to to customers uh and and it’s and it’s another it’s another instance of disrespect and a long
line of disrespect from from that team so uh but we’ll talk we’ll get into it i’m just i’m just i’m
just trying to gear myself up to like just you know we i you guys want me to i think you want me
to be as nice as i can be but i like it’s very difficult it’s it is a it’s a very difficult
thing to do and i think you’ll see this more and more um as we get into the the details okay so we’ve
got uh we got a bunch of people in the house we’ve got a bunch of people in the house this is this is
fantastic um the the plan today is we’re going to look at oxy six first then we will get into
build darius we’re going to do q a along the way i don’t have a plan for how i’m going to go into
these tools and look at them if you want to look at a specific thing in the tool as we’re going you
can drop that in the chat um i would phrase everything as a question if you’re wanting me
to like see it and you to do some things in particular hashtag cue it and phrase it as a
question right okay so like you know we’ve all learned from jeopardy everything can be phrased as
a question so but that’s the way i’m going to find it because i’m going to search for hashtag q
um and it has to be phrased as a question should have a question mark at the end uh all right now
i will say this um little little disclaimer a lot of people love to hate on me doing this they they
and they it’s it’s crazy they kevin before before you had products i loved all of your takes on all of
the different tools and what’s right what’s wrong all this they loved it and then for some reason it’s
like when you start developing a tool they’re like no you can’t do that anymore you can’t that’s off
limits now you can’t do that anymore that’s that’s a violation of some some kind it’s ridiculous
first of all i get dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of hundreds probably of messages and emails
asking me to do this okay so so i’m gonna do it that’s what i’m gonna do that’s what people are
wanting me to do so that’s what i’m gonna do they also know that like i have unique ways of looking
at these things it’s not like oh this is a rando looking at a page builder right i have there’s a
there’s things i see and look at that many other people don’t see and look at when they use these tools
um and so they want those kinds of insights um now it’s gonna raise the question is is he just hating
is he is he because he’s got this competing tool is he just hating he’s built i’m not i’m not actually
worried about like when you see etch you’re gonna see something so fundamentally different and so
fundamentally better and it’s gonna be so so clearly obvious i don’t even i don’t have to hate i don’t
i’m just pointing out why we’re not doing shit this way and you’re gonna clearly see that we didn’t do
shit this way and there’s a reason why we didn’t do it this way and i’m gonna explain the why and then
you’re gonna clearly see it you’re gonna be like yeah you’re gonna come to the same exact conclusion
okay and so you know we have to be we have to when i talk about era three versus era four it’s not as
much as haters want to think that’s just marketing they’re going to clearly see the difference but and
that’s what i’ve always seen or always said i’ve said you know a lot of people that that talk shit
can’t find a record button on a device like i i have no problem finding a record button and so when i
demonstrate things on video to make my point 80 to 90 percent of people are like i mean you can’t argue
with that and but then the 10 percent of haters still want to just fucking dismiss it and excuse
it away right um well we’re gonna find a video with etch and you’re gonna clearly see that era four
is not era three that is the conclusion that you are rapidly going to come to it’s not even going to be a
question okay um and so i i’m finding myself and this bricks included and i actually i saw a tweet
from dave foy today on twitter he made a fantastic point like he’s running out of steam you know
motivation for bricks 2.0 because it’s taking so absolutely long to actually arrive and in this game
you have to be able to move fast you have to be able to iterate quickly you have to be thinking
three steps ahead and these tools like you’re gonna see with oxy is not thinking three steps ahead
they’re thinking they’re they’re thinking about shit like it’s fucking 2019 well you’re gonna see
again it’s very it’s very difficult to to be nice about some of this stuff because it’s coming for so
long and then to also see that a lot of it is just absolutely hijacked from other places uh it’s just
this is not innovation this is not innovative but we’ll get into it we’ll get into it um but i i speak
from a place of confidence because now that we are building a tool and now that like i am seeing in real
time what a motivated innovative team is actually capable of doing it’s it’s really yawning like i’m
i’m just i i go into these era three tools and it’s just big fucking yawn yawn like okay and i’m not i’m
not talking about build areas i haven’t i’ve looked at build areas for five minutes i don’t even know
so i’m not giving an opinion on that yet i have looked at oxy six oxy six is not is not innovation
uh it’s anti-innovation actually in a lot of ways uh it’s moving backwards it almost is like begging
to be an era two tool uh in a lot of ways uh but let’s go ahead and get into it so i’m gonna start
with oxy six then we’ll move into build areas uh questions in the chat hashtag q here we go okay i’m
gonna go ahead and share screen um and by the way you know i’m gonna i’m gonna be much more nice when we
get to the build areas part okay i’m gonna be less nice in the in the oxy part and as i pull this up
i will go into the context as to why okay um let’s go ahead and and get to the builder and then
we’ll we’ll take a pit stop and talk oh you guys can’t okay hold on hold on hold on i gotta i gotta
fix my overlay um screen and cam what do i have to do pull a camera onto here i was recording a bunch
of things without my other camera uh there we go oh look at that it just magically appeared out of
nowhere okay let’s put that on there fantastic all right so good okay let’s let’s do add a new page
um let’s just say test page all right test page publish publish okay um edit and oxygen
all right great here’s here’s our interface you guys can see me now right i’m back i’m back on the
stream i know marcel said can’t see you anymore i should be back now i can even make this maybe a
touch bigger and i’ll try to remember if i’m covering anything up i often forget there’s a lot of things
to think of i’ll try to remember that i’m bottom right if there’s anything critical happening in the
bottom right i’ll try to remember but we should be okay we should be back fantastic all right um
here’s some here’s the tldr context of why of another reason why it is it’s difficult to be nice
okay um oxygen for a many like a straight two years a vast majority of their community including me
came to the conclusion that for oxygen to live on and to be great like i tell you know what the number
one thing i tell my softball team is like but when they’re taking the field it’s just one it’s not a
lot of instructions you know we do a lot of stuff in practice we do but i i just tell them i say go be
great go be great right and um because you know everybody wants to go be great and and you know it’s
it’s motivational it’s not a lot of information in your brain to think just go be great just go be
great okay just for oxygen to go be great they had to rewrite you had they there had to be a rewrite
and we were saying rewrite it in view i mean that’s what bricks was using at the time was that
was the big that was the big up and coming thing we’re like rewrite it in view and and it can continue
to be great and fix a lot of the issues with the current version you guys have learned a lot since
you started on on you know the original first of all there was an original original oxygen before
they i can’t even remember what version it switched over in around two or something like that
um and then they had a second iteration and then it was clear that it was time for a third
iteration and they argued to no end they said no no no no no no no no first of all a lot of people
got wind that it was being rewritten in view uh and and there was a conspiracy is is it being rewritten
in view a lot of people were misled to believe that it was being rewritten in view which is again why
the breakdance announcement was landed completely wrong um but we knew for it to live on it had to be
rewritten it could not live on in its current form and they said no actually it’s just fine it’s just
fine it’s just fine it’s just fine it’s just fine nothing to see here it’s just fine it’s just fine
didn’t care didn’t care what everybody thought it’s just fine it’s just fine it’s just fine
and then you know they go dark we don’t hear from them for for for forever for so long so long many
years and then out of the blue they release breakdance and breakdance was like oh okay nobody asked for
this what is this this is a completely different market this obviously is going to take resources and
time away from oxygen oxygen’s not going anywhere what what what is this and everybody rightfully
got upset now they got doubly upset when a live stream happened on on jonathan jernigan’s channel
and in that live stream lewis essentially proceeded to uh shit on all of the users shit on all of the
creators shit on everything and everybody um and um you know that that that nobody that wasn’t well
received that wasn’t well received by the community um and third-party developers started to leave and
users started to leave and a lot of people started to leave also people got upset and then the banhammer
came down uh people just started getting banned left and right for you know saying anything critical so
that was another big problem right and then i said guys like read the writing on the wall oxygen is this
iteration of oxygen is dead okay and because there’s a bug fix every six months people are like
kevin’s wrong look at that moron oxygen’s clearly still alive and well what did i just say a minute ago
at the beginning of the stream you have to be able to iterate fast you have to be able to move fast you have to be able to
innovate in this game or you have a dead product it’s a dead product stop stop stop this nonsense
well i got a bug fix kevin look it’s not dead no it’s it’s realistically and practically
dead okay um and and remains so uh people are now look look look kevin said oxygen’s dead here’s 6.0
yeah the version i said is dead is still dead and buried okay it’s in a coffin right now it went it went from
being a life support to now being in a coffin for sure okay um and no you can’t so you can’t upgrade
no you have to rebuild and by the way this is what they should have done in the very very beginning
we are in the same uh position everybody was like kevin they can’t they can’t rebuild it because it’s not
going to be backwards compatible that’s not acceptable blah blah blah i said it’s a breakdance is not backwards
compatible they gave you breakdance oxygen still died they gave you oxygen 6 oxygen that you liked
i’m knocking shit over oxygen that you liked still died it still did what i said it was going to do
die 6 didn’t save it breakdance didn’t save it it did exactly what i said it was going to do
quickly did exactly what i said it was going to do at some point you can either start listening or you can
just continue to live a very hard life quickly we had an update this week they found out what
happened to lewis now i’m not going to disclose all the details okay um but they all have sad face so many
of that well you could avoid the sad face if you just listen to what i said uh eight months ago a year ago
now that once the first time it happened and we saw the writing on the wall there’s a lot of people who
struggle to read writing on the wall no matter how clear it is they struggle to read it they don’t want to read it
they don’t or maybe they read it and they don’t want to believe it okay when i read the writing on the wall
i just believe the writing on the wall and i say oh i see what that says okay time to move on right so i warn people
about quickly they didn’t listen i warn people about oxygen they didn’t listen
you can listen or you can live the hard life okay um so we’re in the same spot now we are we have a dead
oxygen we have a new thing called oxygen six and people are even telling me now kevin they skipped
five you know what i mean there’s going to be some innovation coming uh on the 4.0 branch and it’s going
to it could go up to that’s i mean i guess you have to know nothing about software development to think
that’s even in the realm of fucking possibility it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever it doesn’t make
any sense now there’s gonna be three builders they’re gonna be where is that gonna fit in the
portfolio of products it’s just craziness this is insanity um okay so yes when you when you rug pull
your entire customer base when you go on a live stream and shit on them repeatedly and shit on all
the creators who helped make that product successful when you completely shift gears and start focusing on
a different customer base okay uh and then when you continue to say you were gonna you you continue to
do things you said you were never going to do let me remind you breakdance was never going to have a
grid builder thing breakdance was never going to have a loop breakdance was never going to have this
and that and this and that and then now it has it okay and why because people were concerned
that it was going to cannibalize oxygen hey if you give it too many powerful things it’s going to
cannibalize oxygen and they said don’t worry it’s not going to have those things and then it had those
things it just proceeded to have all the things they said it was never going to have okay now how do we
arrive at oxygen six well it turns out oxygen six is a very cheap and easy thing to produce if you take
an entire architecture that you’ve already built somewhere else and then you take somebody else’s ui
and you slap them together okay um literally lewis could have told his team guys i want you to take
breakdance’s architecture and i want you to put web flows ui on it i’m going to go skiing and didn’t
even have to provide any direction beyond that didn’t have to do any problem solving beyond that just
marry together breakdance’s architecture and web flows ui and it feels like that’s exactly what the team
did and that’s what they shipped you as the future of of uh page building now i will remind you web flows
ui if anybody is familiar with the last time i looked at web flow web flows ui is already years
out of date it is web flows ui was designed before the era of variable first workflows okay if you know
what a variable first workflow like a token first workflow in inputs we’re going to clearly see this as we go
through because they use the same ui they took a ui that was already years out of date and has so many
obvious problems and was like yeah let’s let’s do that let’s let’s do that right there just ship that
no innovation no problem solving no effort whatsoever just ship that well sir it’s years out of date and
sir it doesn’t really work with the modern workflow of 2020 just ship it that’s what you’re getting that’s
what you’re getting with oxygen six okay um so anything build is the you can’t you can’t mimic
five years ago and call that the future that’s just that doesn’t work that’s that’s ridiculous
um okay let me just check on it on the chat real quick
yeah yeah if you want if you want to if you want to reveal you know what happened to quickly’s lewis
in the chat uh then you know that’s up to you i don’t i mean i i i’m look i’m not mad at the guy
for for for like okay like he decided he’s gonna go live his life i’m only mad at him for lying about
it um and misleading people and telling him quickly was coming back when it actually isn’t coming back and
all this other stuff um but again that didn’t affect me because i had already read the writing on the
wall i was completely unaffected by that it was just a bunch of people that didn’t listen
uh you know that were that were super sad face uh okay so so let’s get into this here here’s the
interface the first thing i look for is just uh elements right this this layout where’s my where’s
my pro mouse cursor okay let’s be clear about this okay this layout of of adding elements what and
let’s set the stage with some additional context here the original idea of a page builder was
we are going to empower people who don’t know what they are doing to build websites that was the
original premise of every page builder in existence okay for the most part um so the choices that they
made if that’s the question you’re asking how do we make it easy for lay people to build websites if
that is the question you are asking you are going to come to certain answers and conclusions this is one
one of them like giant blocks giant friendly looking blocks that people can drag onto a page yada yada yada
this has been the layout of every page builder since the beginning of time essentially okay um and so
right off the bat it’s like well yeah we’re just going to keep doing that so you know there’s no there’s
no innovation here now oxygen had a section element oxygen had a div those are fundamental html elements
they took those away now another thing we have to talk about oxygen section element was technically
and architecturally broken i talked about this over and over and over again it had an inner wrapper that
the user could not access which violates the number one rule of designing a page builder okay is do not
create boxes the user does not have access to because they cause a tremendous amount of issues a tremendous
amount of issues so it violated that that architectural flaw violated that principle 100 then they violated
the second uh uh rule of sections which is essentially do not put the padding in the inner wrapper put it
in the actual section element and there’s a very good reason for this we established something called the
content width of a website i’m gonna have to um i’m gonna have to pull up bricks to to demonstrate this
because it’s one of the few that actually does it correctly uh let’s go to uh february that’ll work
okay i know it’s march we gotta delete that one we gotta we gotta get a new one going
all right let’s get in here so i go to pages i go to add new okay
let’s go section and this is good it’s gonna be good to compare it’s gonna be good to compare
first of all let’s just go speed of building um i i isn’t it isn’t it isn’t the aren’t these tools
supposed to speed you up okay look how fast i’m gonna add sections look at this look at look at all
those sections look at all those sections they’re gorgeous they have a section tag they have an inner
container the outer wrappers flexing okay it’s set to flex it’s centering this container this container
is automatically the content width of my website okay so take a look at this i am going to um i’m gonna put
text in here okay you could you could very clearly see this the text goes edge to edge of the content
width of my website that is exactly what you want not edge to edge of the device edge to edge of the
content width of the website okay when you now the gutter the where’s where does this gutter come from
okay this gutter right here to protect your content from touching the edges of the screen
comes from the section element this is the only way now lewis i wrote an article on this lewis
specifically said my article was wrong so and he said it because he knows he can’t fix it in oxygen he
knows he can’t fix it because it would fuck up every website that’s ever been built in oxygen
so because he can’t fix it he said it’s wrong and it is an objective fucking fact this is not
kevin’s opinion this is not uh he’s just shitting on it this is objective fucking fact if you put the
gutter in here so i i have a uh i have a token called gutter so i’m gonna go to padding and i’m gonna go
gutter gutter gutter look now i’m gonna remove it i’m gonna remove it from the section we’ll zero out the section
so i go down to mobile same exact outcome but here’s the thing that people don’t see it’s not what you’re
seeing it’s what you’re not necessarily seeing when you put the padding in the inner container you change the
effective content width of the website this is now the content width of my website not what i set the
content width of the website to if i want it to be 1366 and i add padding to the container it is not 1366
anymore it’s 1366 minus padding times two that is what the effective width of the website is and that
throws off a tremendous amount of first of all it just doesn’t make sense second of all it adds a lot
of complications when you’re doing things where you need to calculate the content width of the website or
calculate the gutters or whatever it makes your life tremendously difficult and that’s by the way what
pros will end up doing when they’re building websites and so they want to avoid those problems
how do you avoid those problems by not sticking padding inside of your content width container the other
thing that it does is it if you go back to page building 101 it breaks your box you never want to
break your box so the minute this thing needs background color on it okay background red okay we’re going to
start to see problems now that doesn’t go full width right here okay so now i’ve got to compensate for
hold on this is my gutter lives in there well if my gutter lives in there i can’t also just willy-nilly
use any padding in this box i’m confined to using a gutter on this box or i now have to come out here
and add the gutter here where it should have been in the first place so that i can use any padding that
i want inside of that box it breaks the box model so there are numerous reasons why this is technically
incorrect lewis said kevin’s wrong i’m right oxygen’s right that’s the way we’re going to keep doing it he
didn’t fix it he didn’t acknowledge the facts of the situation and fix it because he can’t uh and so
what are they doing what i say all this i bring this up because they had a chance to fix it in oxy-6
and they didn’t and you know what they did instead they just said fuck it we’re not even going to give
them a section we just won’t give them a section that solves the problem right there and so now how do
you create a section in oxygen six well you add a container that gives you this is not even a
container by the way let me let me let’s pull this up let’s let’s let’s go to let’s go to fury.co
okay let’s go here look at this look at this look at this we’re gonna go to this blog very important
super important guys super important okay kind of for everybody kind of for everybody a call for better
naming conventions and page builders i’m really this article is very very serious and important
there is so much confusion in in the land that we’re working in right now so much blocks uh sections
uh containers uh gutters uh columns and i want you to read the actual explanation that these things are
not what they are called like columns this this is this is actually a thing in css this is not what page
any no page builder calls this calls columns correctly by what they actually are uh gets down
into menus it gets down into rich text it gets down into buttons oh buttons is a major violation major
violation here um this is a very detailed okay we like it would be really helpful if we could get
on the same page with what this stuff is called okay but check this out container is not a content with
element like it is in bricks like it is in many other uh you know instances of web design okay
uh even even like web flow knows the container goes inside the sections content with your website
they have violated that they’ve just said well container is anything a container is just a box
so they took a box which is a div and they called it a container okay so they hijacked another name and
gave it’s just tremendous amount of confusion i’ve got to add this as a section bang i’ve got to come
in here i’ve got to add another one okay and uh that now what i have to do because i have two containers
one inside the other that are the same dimensions i can’t even see both of them on the canvas right
now i don’t even know which one i’m selecting okay i got to open the structure panel i got to name this
section okay and probably give it whatever real name i want it to have but it’s just container container
container this container’s all over the place no uh inkling of like is that thing actually a section or
not i’ve got to look up here in the right hand corner like so just from a glance perspective of me
figuring out what the actual structure of my web page is i don’t i can’t really see the structure
i can only see labels this is like a base level beginner problem that anybody that’s used a page
builder before who cares about page structure knows the structure panel is supposed to actually tell you
what the structure is it doesn’t it doesn’t okay and now what i got to do is i got to build my own
section so i got to come in here i created this earlier i have to create a section class then i have to come in
here and i have to put a container class on here that i pre-made earlier and now i finally arrived
at a section now let me go back to bricks and just let’s just reiterate okay you’re trying to work fast
you’re trying to work fast done done done deal one click done deal done deal can you do that in oxygen
no you got to add two elements you got to re change the tags you now i was highly critical of
gutenberg for doing this exact same thing gutenberg gives you the group block see hey it’s a container
in oxygen it’s a div over here it’s a group over here all these tools are just like whoa whatever the
fuck name we want to use that’s what we’ll use and everybody will have to figure it out
so you add a group you have to change the tag manually to a section i said it really sucks that there’s no
section element in gutenberg and you know what half the gutenberg people kevin you could just change the tag
i know i i i know i’m not dumb i know you can change the tag my argument is that adding a thing it’s extra
clicks it’s lots of extra clicks why look at this like it’s so frustrating to have a fucking solution
and they’re like we don’t give a fuck about the solution we just want you to we want your life
to be harder that’s what we’re opting for okay look here it is there it is that’s exactly what i want
that’s exactly what i’m at look how easy that is there it is oh my god that’s so nice and in
gutenberg they’re like well that doesn’t matter just use the group block change it to a section add
another group block why what what’s so fucking hard about this what’s so hard about that it’s solved
when we when we why can’t we come to an agreement that this yeah there’s a problem and somebody solved it
let’s use the solution and uh no no no no we’re gonna do it our way no why that’s so dumb it’s so
dumb it makes no sense makes no sense and so they’re in the great innovation of oxy six was let’s be as
dumb as gutenberg let’s just not give them a section element that’s that isn’t that nice we won’t give
them a div either we’ll just give them this generic 100 with blank flex box and that’s all their option
is and then they’ll have to do all the work around that that’s that’s what that’s what our that’s the
future of of page building is no sections no dibs just blank containers the same problem that’s existed
in elementor the same problem that’s existed in gutenberg the same problem it’s like why are we copying
problems and ignoring solutions this makes no sense makes no sense okay we’re i mean we’re just getting
warmed up this might go over 90 minutes today i i don’t know what to tell you guys this might go over
90 minutes today here’s another here’s another common problem okay i’m i’m gonna i’m gonna make a grid i’m
gonna make a grid uh and and i and i want to i want to go through the process of making a grid with you now
i guess what i should do is i should show you making a grid inside of uh inside of this tool right here
okay so i’m gonna say this is my grid now i’m i i opt for like a css first workflow in bricks this is an
automatic css feature okay we’re gonna ignore that for now we’re gonna go to uh the content tab which if
we’re being critical of bricks this is the stuff living in the content tab is ludicrous it’s it makes
no sense whatsoever but neither here nor there um it’s not a deal breaker so i’m just gonna choose grid
as as my layout and i get these simple clean inputs where i can do something like repeat
three min max zero one fr yeah okay i can do that i can do that now let’s let’s throw some divs in here
three divs there’s my there’s my grid i mean this is as straightforward as it can possibly get you gave me
an input thank you and i know what to do with it thank you now if we’re grading this on okay is this
a is this a pro level builder remember oxygen is build as a pro builder breakdance is the beginner builder
so if you’re a beginner you will probably like breakdance if you are a pro you will probably like
oxygen it is a pro builder keep saying that over and over and over again what would you classify bricks
as would you classify bricks as a pro builder i classify bricks as a hybrid builder okay uh that
pros can get on with it and and it’s not going to slow them down in ways that many other builders slow
them down but it’s not really a pro it’s not like design for professionals it’s a it’s a hybrid tool it’s
trying to kind of like make things easier for everybody um but in in this instance of like a
grid it’s it’s more clearly i would say if we’re if we’re like putting it on a scale it’s on the pro
side of the scale okay and we’re gonna see in oxy six a clear difference here okay so we’re gonna go in
and um here here we’re going to try to create our grid so i’m gonna do the same thing i’m just gonna say
my my my grid okay so here is my grid and did i already create a my grid i want to make let’s just
delete this in case i don’t want to start i want to start from scratch okay my grid now my premise of
i have to add more context to why it’s hard to be nice it’s hard to be nice because i when i launched
when we pre-launched etch one of the things we said was it is very very important to us because
we think it’s very very important in the realm of software development to build the tool with users
so that users can use it along the way because you end up making lots of architectural decisions that are
hard to change later and expensive to change later and you can’t just say my opinions my personal
opinions is how it’s going to be okay you have to build with users so that users are involved in and
can they can give you their perspective on things as the tool is developed and these major architectural
decisions are being made oxygen the original version did not do that breakdance did not do that oxygen
6.0 did not do that this is a team that refuses to involve creators in the development process like
myself like jonathan like any of the former oxygen users this is a team that refuses to involve you
the customer in the process and therefore when you take the road of refusing to involve people who
could solve these problems as it as they happen you are 100 responsible for these problems existing
and you have to take the criticism for the fact that they exist period you can’t exclude everybody
and build something in the dark of night and then go let’s beta just be patient fuck that we could
have fixed this months ago years ago i don’t know how how long this has taken these are things that
could have absolutely been fixed along the way and now we’re just supposed to tolerate them with like
a smile on our face because you did things the way you want to do them it that’s that’s why i say
it’s a disrespectful offering you got a team that i don’t even think they build websites anymore
so they’re out of touch with how web development actually works in 2025 and then they just completely
shut everybody out and build in the dark of night and then hand it to you and you’re supposed to like
clap like seals or something thank you thank you so this is just so fantastic i just can’t wait to help
you fix all these atrocious bugs and workflow issues and eventually we’ll have something that may be really
good and you know how much criticism i got for guys we can’t show you anything because we have to build it
with the people in order to show you something and they just shit all over me for that like and now
they see though and now they’re gonna see as as we say in atlanta you gonna learn today okay you gonna learn
today why we did it the way that we did it and you’re seeing this now of why it should be done that way
because this is the birth child of what happens when you develop in the dark of night with nobody’s inputs
and only your own little opinions okay this is exactly what happens it’s exactly what i warned about
it’s exactly so go back to the track record if anybody’s keeping score just put another fucking point
on my side okay this is exactly what happens let’s get on with creating a grid i’m gonna go um let’s
see display here we go display first of all the juxtaposition between what is a label and what is a
button i mean you gotta study you gotta study this with your eyes right at a glance it’s very difficult
we’re gonna hit grid so the first layer let’s flip i like flipping back and forth because you can
clearly see when i let’s let’s back this up back it up terry back it up terry okay when i elected to
have this layout as a grid in uh in in bricks what happened actually it’s it’s let’s just take that off
because this was the original thing that you saw this was so you see it’s flexed by default you got all
your flex controls which trust me i like i could harp on this right here i can i hate this i hate i
hate it okay it’s not a deal breaker i don’t like it it’s not a deal breaker okay but look i’m gonna go
my grid what is the first layer of controls that bricks offers me because the ui changes when i apply
a grid okay so i apply a grid look how the ui you see that the ui changed so bricks’s development team
was saying okay what are we going to offer them when they elect to have a layout as a grid this is
what they offer us now as a user i mean whether i’m doing repeat three min max zero one fr done
whether i’m doing one fr one fr one fr which i would never do which we’re going to talk about in just a
minute whether i’m doing grid three and auto completing my variable thanks to automatic css
do you see how accessible and fast and quick that workflow is okay now what am i offered in the pro
builder called oxygen six i am offered this i am offered cute little toggles for just like oh i just
tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick okay now what is the output see what did i say it’s not what you see
it’s what you may not see it’s not what you see at first glance it’s what you may not see at first
glance okay i’m going to save this i’m going to go to the front end how do i get to the front end okay
open a new tab i love the extra choices i i don’t know i thought the arrow was going to take me to the
front end it gave me gave me additional choices um let’s go in and inspect okay there’s my section only
because i made it okay what most users are going to do is they’re just going to add a bunch of
containers they’re going to have divs everywhere it’s going to be a nightmare um okay so this is my
grid right here grid template columns 1fr 1fr 1fr so the first layer that they offered me was the nice
cute little just tick it up just tick tick tick tick tick publish right what does it output it outputs code
that i would never write i would never write 1fr 1fr 1fr if you’ve ever done anything with grid
you understand that there is the potential for creating grid overflow issues okay grid overflow
issues are solved by min max functions and so any any competent user writing css grid tends to use min
max functions rather than just naked 1fr variables okay um and so automatic css uses for example the
repeat 3 min max 0 1fr that’s what it uses because that prevents overflow issues okay um and and other
semblances of layout issues so the oxygen builder right in this format this first layer of grid outputs
code that i would never write which means i can’t use that layer this layer which is the first layer offered to
me is useless it i would never use it i would never use this ui and i could have told him this a month
into development i gotta say i’m sorry i’m never doing it that way i’m unless you fix the output i’m never
doing it that way okay now even even if it did output the right thing it’s too limited it’s far too limited
for what we’re doing versus the bricks uh system which i could do many many many things many many many
things if i know what i’m doing many many many because a lot of times i’m going auto grid one
right i’m doing auto this 45 characters this and then i’m doing a min max function over here
i’m i can’t do any of that here i can’t do any of that here not in first not in their first layer
okay so already i’m slower already i’m less efficient already i have an irrelevant ui layer that’s being offered
to me which again again if you involve the creator in the process if you involve the fucking single
user that knows what they’re doing in the maybe they could point this out if you weren’t out of
touch with that with reality if you weren’t copying web flows exact ui for half this shit okay
you’re probably going to notice the similarity between a lot of these panels do i tell you
it was a just take breakdance architecture marry it to web flows ui you got oxygen six okay i don’t
even honestly i don’t even know what the grid ui is but look at that i mean you recognize this you
guys recognize this area right here you recognize that okay you reckon you recognize this anybody
recognize this see this is what web flow this was good this was a good ui in 2019
not in 2025 it’s not a good ui the idea that you would take a multi-year out of date ui and go that’s
the fucking future right there just bake that in absurd you know maybe there’s some problems no no no
just bake it in just just use that just go with that it’s good it’s good that’s the future okay
okay it’s not what you see it’s what you might not see okay i mean keep reminding you of this i see
things that other people may not see now let’s go back into where we were where were we well if layer
one of the ui offering doesn’t work what about layer two maybe layer two solves maybe an extra click
will solve my problems so i’m going to click this little cog right here i’m going to click this little
cog right here and i’m going to get this okay um a click a click produced a ui that requires more
clicks okay i i had to click to get to the ui that allows me to do more clicks i’m just talking speed
efficiency here but we’re still not i mean we’re we’re surf there’s four layers to this okay so if
you’re on the popcorn band like you know you might want to throw another one in the microwave
now i’m going to hit i’m going to hit columns right here because that’s what i want that’s my
that’s another click let’s just there’s click costs here and i get this thing called one fr
now what they actually want you to do for a three column grid perhaps is go click click again
and that’s going to give you three one frs now i’m going to save this we’re going to go here we’re
going to we’re going to refresh there’s no hot reload okay i mean why why would you do 2025
things in 2025. You got to reload it manually. Same output. Same output. I went through a second
layer. I did not get what I wanted. I got the same output as the first layer. That was all for not.
Now, the question is, can I manipulate these things? Well, I’m going to hover them,
and I can see I can move them. I can see I can duplicate them. I can see I can trash them.
I’m actually going to trash the first two. There is no visual indication that you can also click it.
Okay, so I’m going to click it, and I’m going to get a modal, and that modal is going to give me
a cute little slider for fractional values. I don’t want that. Who the fuck? What professional
would use this? What, you think professionals are going to come in and others willy-nilly fucking
throw thumbs around on a slider? Well, what is this even for? If I wanted a fractional unit,
couldn’t I just type it into an input? I’m sorry. Let me go. Let me flip back to bricks.
Can I just, can I not do that? That seems pretty straightforward and simple.
What, what, I got to go three layers deep to do that? Okay, hold on, but that’s still not what I
want. Guys, I want a repeat three min max zero one FR funk. That’s all I want. That’s like a nice
three column grade. That’s all I want. How do I get to it? Well, there is still a pathway. We’re not done
with the layers. You got to click the FR right here. And now we get the old 2015 unit dropdown,
which I just said, by the way, in etch that we will never have. None of this shit will exist. This is
not, no professional wants to use this. This is, this is an atrocious UX, but I can come all the way down
to custom. And now finally, finally, I’m sorry. What am I doing? Repeat three min max.
Finally, finally. Now you need to make another grid. Do all that dance again. You need, oh, you need to
make another grid. Oh, I see you’re making a lot of grids. You want to keep doing that dance over and
over and over and over again. My Lord, my Lord. Um, even down to, I mean, well, you would say, Kevin,
I mean, use a variable, right? Of course, of course I want to use a variable. Of course.
Um, I don’t even know how, I mean, how, how do we get back? Okay. You got to undo the cog.
See this little plus sign. This is what allows you to choose variables. Okay. Where did that idea come
from? A lot of people would be like, man, that’s fucking, that’s kind of ingenious right there.
They little, they create a little hover icon. That’s nice. It’s small. It doesn’t take a lot of space.
Okay. Um, can I get to a, uh, oh God, I, I, uh, you’re going to see in a minute. It’s,
it’s a direct fucking one-to-one. Okay. I, I hate, do you see these arrows that pop up?
Look, it’s for this. No web flow, web flow, no user, no professional in their right mind is
willy nilly dragging values. This is, and it gets in the way of actually clicking in the box.
I don’t know why a web. Oh, there it is. Oh, that’s where that came from. That’s where that,
that innovation came from, right? That’s what web flow did to help their users apply variables
to inputs. Okay. This is not new. This is not, there’s nothing fresh here. There’s nothing fresh.
Um, let me go, let me go back. All right. Um, so yes, you can, you can create a variable. All right.
Let’s go in and let’s, I mean, let’s do that. Let’s, let’s do that. Where do we even go? Um,
do these things have tool tips? No, no, you, you get to play the game of, of what’s behind the icon.
That is a, it’s a very fun game. Uh, it gets old very quickly, but it is initially a little fun,
but it gets old very quickly. Uh, what is behind the, you have to click the icons to find out what’s
behind them. You click here. There’s a bunch of icons right here. Do you have any idea what any of these do?
Oh, by the way, I will direct your attention to this area.
Cause when I hover these, that’s when I actually get a tool tip. The problem is the tool tip is
way up there and that side. Uh, so that’s not as helpful. Um, but yeah, okay. Let’s, let’s go back
and let’s do a variable. Um, now, I mean, people are going to, people are going to be like, Kevin’s
just shitting on it. He just, he just doesn’t like his competitors. He just, you tell me how
objective are these arguments? How objective rate the objectiveness of these arguments on a scale of
one to 10 in the chat. Um, I think it’s pretty, pretty rock solid. Let’s go add a variable. Let’s
go add a, probably a unit variable. Yeah. Yeah. None. There’s a lot of clicks. None. What’s the
difference between none and custom? I don’t know. We have to figure that out. Repeat three min max
zero one FR. Okay. All right. Let’s go grid three. All right. I think, I think I’ve created a variable.
Um, I’m going to click on the canvas real quick. I want you to see a little something,
something. Okay. Uh, Oh, Oh no. Okay. Uh, so technically speaking, the variables panel is not
inside of the builder instance that you are working on. It is effectively a sub magic area. Okay. Now I
don’t have to leave the builder to get to it, but it is a workflow that is happening outside of the
builder instance that you are currently in, which means if you add a bunch of them and, um, and you
click the canvas and you don’t read this message completely and you just are kind of moving quickly,
you will lose all of your work. It is not a situate. Like you have to save what’s happening
in that one panel before you can do anything else. Little bit dangerous, little bit annoying.
Cause what if I need to click something to kind of see what variable I need to create for it?
You can’t, it’s like a pseudo magic area where you have to always save. Then you can click something
on the canvas and look at it. And then you can go back to the pseudo magic area. Not, not fantastic.
Uh, you have unsaved changes here. Okay. So we’ll, we’ll save. Let’s just see if we can get on with
this. All right. So we will, uh, clear this out. Now I can click this at, oh shit.
Why isn’t it there? Well, again, uh, this is not all happening. This is not, um,
this is not very etchy. Okay. It’s, it’s again, that happened in the, the builder,
it’s the same problem. The builder doesn’t know that variable exists. I’m going to save.
I got to refresh the builder. Okay. So now we’ll come back in. We’ll select my grid. Um,
we will build, oh fuck. Okay. Let’s go back to, I mean, what do I, to put it in a, where,
where do I have to put it? What, what do I have to do to make it,
work collection one? I don’t know. What is it? Does anybody know? Does anybody know?
Um, the way Kevin shits on everything etches better be revolutionary, a Tony Stark level site
building technology. No, actually it doesn’t. I mean, it is, but it doesn’t have to be because
the bar is so fucking low. God, this is such a, stop being impressed by bars. You can just step over.
Like it’s ridiculous. This is 2025 copying stuff from 2019. It’s a very low bar, honestly. Um,
but you know, we are truly actually innovating. Uh, move, oh, move your head to the left. Why?
Okay. Let’s do that. What was I covering up? Was I covering up something? Um, okay.
Yeah. Jason says, but this is their third builder. They have the know-how to do what is right,
but didn’t. Exactly. There is context to the, this is not like a team’s first offering. This is a team’s
third, fourth offering. And this is a team that purposefully excludes people from participating in
the process. Okay. And that to me, you, you are electing to like a fair game. Like, cause we,
we didn’t involve you. So yeah, if there’s issues like that’s on us, got to keep this stuff in context.
I’m just reading the chat real quick. So I, this is the comment. I can’t stand this shit.
Chill my guy. It’s the first beta. No, stop it. Stop making excuses. You can’t work on something for
two years where you stole, you took an architecture. They didn’t steal it because they built it, but they
took the architecture from breakdance and then they did steal the UI from web flow and they mushed them
with no, with no zero attention to detail, zero attention to solving known problems.
And then they shipped it to you. And because they slapped a beta label on it, by the way,
they excluded you from the entire process. You couldn’t fix this stuff along the way.
And because they slapped a beta label on it, all like, Oh, just chill. My guy, just chill.
Stop it. Stop it. Like this is bad behavior. This is bad behavior in the dev space. Good behavior in
the dev space says, Hey, we don’t want this thing to just be based on our opinions. We want to involve
our customers in the dev process. We want to involve other experts in the dev process. We want
everybody’s feedback. We want to have arguments on how this stuff should actually work. We want to have
debates on what the best way to do this stuff is. And we want to build something that’s actually
special. That’s what a dev, if they’re going to take your money, that’s what they should be saying.
And when you have a team that says exactly the opposite, fuck the creators, fuck the customers.
We do what we want. We’re just going to, and we’re just going to take our existing architecture and this
other, other companies UI, we’re going to mesh them together. We’re going to give it to you and you
better fucking like it. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what you’re defending. That’s the,
that’s the philosophy, the dev philosophy that you’re defending. Okay. Okay.
All right. Let’s take note of that. Let’s take note for anybody that’s keeping score.
Let’s take note. Yeah. Two years is a long ass dev talk, especially what people see when,
when people see what can happen in six months, they’re going to, I’m telling you, I’m telling
you the, the reason I can say this stuff with confidence is because I already know what’s
coming. I, you might not know what’s coming. I know what’s coming. I know what can be done
in six months now and what can’t be done in six months. Now, a lot of people are going to be less
scratching their head. A lot of people are going to be very confused when they see what can be done in
six months. They’re going to be very confused. Okay. So you, you may want to hold the opinion.
You may want to hold your opinions on my opinions. All right. I’ll take your word for it. When I see
a single screenshot of edge, I don’t, you don’t have to take my word for it. Rovert, the people that were
smart enough to say, Oh, look at the track record of this team. I think I’m going to buy in early. So
I get the best deal. And so I get to be part of the process. And so see all the people, now I’m going
to give you a chance. Like, you know, buying in March is better than buying last September. A hundred
percent for sure. I mean, buying in March is better than buying next September. Okay. It’s not definitely
not better than buying last September, but this September, when it comes again, buying in March
going to be much better than buying in September. I guarantee you. And this time around, you will get
to see something, but you can’t say that you can’t say, I’ll take your word for it. Well, why don’t you
take the word of the 1500 people who are already looking at it and already using it because their,
their word is pretty, um, it’s, it’s pretty cohesive. Okay. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s crazy though,
but I, it’s, it’s, it’s, um, rovert. I’m just speaking to rovert. I don’t care if you buy it in
March or September, or I would actually like, like it for you rovert. If you’re a patient buyer, I would
love for you to buy it three years from now when it’s three times the price. Uh, that would, that would
still work for me. I was, cause it’s, it’s going to be successful up to that point. And then you’re three
times the amount will make it even more so, right? I don’t, I don’t, I’m not, the, the tool is going
to do the convincing. I don’t have to do the convincing. Okay. Um, all right. So now we got our,
we got our three column grid. I still can’t get a variable. I don’t, I’m just going to make it here.
new variable grid three repeat. I, I can’t type in the box. It only, it only accepts a number.
something else, something else I could have identified as a problem in five minutes and just,
this wouldn’t be a problem now. Well, Kevin, it’s got a beta label. Kevin, just be patient. It’s got a beta.
When my, when, when our MVP is better than their beta, what then? What then?
Dear Lord.
Let’s make a component. Let’s make a component. I want to talk more about speed and, and, and performance
and such. We know that builders have performance issues. We know oxygen has had a lot of performance
issues in the past. Uh, we know bricks has performance issues on, on large complex pages.
Um, we know it’s kind of plagued. It’s kind of plagued builders. This needs a container class
because the container doesn’t actually behave like a container until you give it a container class.
Let’s make a button.
Okay. All right. We’re going to make a button component. We’re going to make a button component.
We’re going to call this my button. Um, we’re going to instantly make it a component.
Oh, the other thing I hate the other thing I just hate. And I, and this is not an oxygen hate.
It’s I hate oxygen because they copied it, but it’s, it’s a general hate.
This is my structure panel. Yeah. I, I need to see the structure of my page at all times. It’s
just the thing you just, anybody, anybody working on a complex page, you have to be able to see the
structure of your page at all times. I click on this. I lose the structure. I’m, I’m adding to my
structure that I can no longer see. I’m adding elements to the structure of the page that I can no
longer see. I can no longer see the structure. I have to choose. Do you want to see the
structure or do you want to add things to the structure? This is the Gutenberg UX. This is the
number one complaint I have of Gutenberg that your structure panel does not persist. That no matter
what you do, you lose your structure panel at all times, just doing your general daily workflow.
And it is the single biggest annoyance of Gutenberg. And did they fix that with Oxy6? No,
no. They were just like, Oh, let’s just, let’s just also do that. Let’s just do that exact thing.
Just whatever the biggest complaint is. Let’s just do that. That’s what it seems like is happening.
Okay. So let’s, let’s go in and try to, cause I have to get to the structure panel to make it a
fucking component. So I’m going to right click and I’m going to save this as a component. We’re going to
say a button. My, we’ll say my button. Okay. Save. Okay. Save. It is in fact, a component.
Let’s try editing this component. Let’s try editing this component. I’m going to hit edit component.
Oh, can’t do that here. Cannot do that here. That’s a, it’s requires a little bit of magic.
Therefore you need to save what you’re doing. I would advise you to save before you lose your work
and we’re going to have to take you somewhere else. Okay. We’re going to have to take you
to a magic area. Nah. And now you can’t see your component in the context of where the component
is actually being used that you have to, you have to build it on a blank canvas. Okay. Um,
it does have the, my button class still, which is nice. So let’s add some spacing. Okay. Oh dear.
Uh, shit. Okay. Tried to click in there. Got an arrow. Got, how do I can’t even get the arrow
in the end? Okay. Now I can click, but I don’t want pixels guys. I don’t want pixels. Uh, I would
like to use a spacing variable. Maybe we can make one of those here. Add spacing. Yes. Yes. That’s what
I want to do. Uh, space M. Um, I want to use a clamp function. Let’s go custom. Let’s go clamp. Okay.
I don’t know what my clamp is going to be. I don’t know. One rim, one rim, one V W, uh, two rim. I
don’t fucking know. I’m just making shit up. Okay. Uh, all right. So now I’ve used that there. I’m
going to use, I’m going to try to use that variable here. I got to double click into the box. Then I got
to hit the plus sign. Then I got to come down here and choose that now. Okay. Now I’m using that there.
Okay. Oh wait, I’m not using it in the top. What is this up here? What is happening up?
That’s in the margin, but I don’t want that in the margin. Oh dear. Fuck.
Oh, this is so, oh, it’s showing me the computed value. I don’t want to know the computed value.
I want to see what token I’m using. What is happening? I don’t even, let’s try to add it over here.
You smokes. Yikes. You wanted to see the yikeses. If you came for the yike, if you came for the yikeses,
it’s almost like this kind of layout is not really suitable to tokens, is it? Well, why are we copying
Webflow? Webflow wasn’t designed in the era of a tokenized workflow. Of course the UI doesn’t work
for tokens. This is what happens when you copy a UI that’s fucking five years out of date. Okay.
Did it even, I don’t even know if it, I don’t, is it on the top of the button? Okay. Let’s go to background.
Let’s just add a background. I let’s add, I got a primary color in here. Okay. Let’s go to
typography. I’m in another. Okay. Let’s just do FFF. We just got to get on with this. Okay. Let’s save.
I don’t want it to be underlined. Can I remove the underline with none? Let’s just, okay. We can do that.
All right.
Woosa. Woosa. What is it? Look at this. What? Oh, why? How did I get? You see what the arrows,
there’s a little problem with the arrows. Is it zero? Is it, what is it? What is it?
Okay. I don’t know. I give up. Uh, let’s put a, uh, okay. Well, let’s just, let’s just go back.
Let’s just, can I go back where, where, first of all, where I can go up here. Test page. I got to go
back to where I was. Uh, there’s my button. There it is. Oh dear. Oh dear. What is it in that it’s
not affecting the height of the container is, I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on.
Let’s just, let’s just duplicate. I need a couple.
Oh, oh, you make something a component and now you live in the land of the three second wait.
duplicate. I swear. I, if you were on the last etch call, by the way, etch already has components.
By the way, etch already has, uh, the first iteration of component conditions for component
variance. You can duplicate five buttons in the amount of time it takes to duplicate one button.
I just, I just, I just click duplicate.
I’m going to duplicate a lot of them. Oh, I can’t. Let’s try duplicating them over here.
This is a blank page. My friends, I am, I am concerned for like, what will the weight be
when it’s a complex page? Let’s look. I know people want to move on to, to build areas.
Um, I want to show you, I want to show you one more thing. So we know we need query loops. We
know we need dynamic data. We know we try to build scalable, maintainable websites. We got a post loop
builder. I’m going to, I’m just going to open the post loop builder. Um, okay. Can I, can I put
anything inside the loop and just repeat it like I can in bricks, like I can in, in any other builder
with a decent repeater? No, you have to make everything a component. You want to, you want to do a card?
It’s got to be a component. You want to do anything. It’s got to be a component. Okay.
Which by the way, you now live in the land of magic areas. You are now always going to a magic
area to edit whatever you are doing. Cause it has to be a component in order to loop it. That is your
only option. What about the, um, what about the, what about the, um, repeater field repeater field?
Surely, surely I can just put whatever I want inside of it. Can I just drag a button into the
repeater and start? No, no. Uh, if the button is a component, you can choose the component and you
can repeat the component. Um, can you put multiple components inside the repeater and repeat multiple?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The repeater, Oxygen’s repeater already had problems.
Like the 4X version already had problems. It got, they made it worse. Why? Because this is
Breakdance’s architecture. Breakdance was not built for professionals, but we are using its architecture,
which means the loop limitations of the Breakdance architecture, which was designed for beginners,
now affects Oxygen. You have those same limitations. All of the terrible loop limitations in Breakdance
now by default exist in Oxygen. You cannot loop whatever you want to loop. You can only loop single
one-off components, but Kevin, it’s a beta. Um, the repeater can’t repeat. Yeah, I know. Yeah. There’s
a, well, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of things. There’s a lot of problems. Okay.
Um, this, I will just reiterate in my opinion. Okay. Is a, it is, it is disrespectful to do this
to your customer base. You had the opportunity because people make decisions based on hope
staying with a company. Like I am hopeful that this company, like this, why a lot of people were with
bricks. I am hopeful because Thomas listens. I am hopeful because he has a good semblance of a roadmap.
I am hopeful. Right. You say, I am hopeful that SoFly is good. And what SoFly does is they repeatedly
say, we will produce what we want to produce. You will not be a part of the process. You will not be
prioritized as a user. Your opinions, your needs, your wants, your wishes, your feedback is not important
enough to us to involve you. We will give you what we give you and you will smile and you will like it
and you will pay again. And again, now I know some of you, you know, the LT, Oh, I got the LTD, Kevin,
I got this for free. But wouldn’t you have, wouldn’t you rather have something truly way better,
truly innovative? Like it feels like heart and soul and thought and effort was actually baked into it.
Would it like, you have to weigh against alternatives in life. There are hard costs
and there are opportunity costs. And too many people, I don’t know if it’s an IQ issue. I don’t
know. I don’t know what the issue is, but they only look at hard costs. Well, Kevin, I was giving it for
free because I bought that LTD a long time ago. They gave me this for free. It’s just a bonus.
But the opportunity cost is fucking, you are bankrupt. Now you are bankrupt in terms of
opportunity costs, right? Because you stuck with it and stuck with it and stuck with it. And, uh,
you don’t, first of all, you didn’t even know it was coming, but you had some semblance of hope or
something. And then they gave you a beginner architecture with somebody else’s UI, with none of the problem
solved. Worse repeaters, worse loops, worse everything that this, and then they, and then
they want you to be happy about that. They want you to be excited about that. They have the nerve to say
the five year old UI that’s, it’s been out of date for five years, honestly, been out of date that. And
then this beginner architecture that we already had sitting around on the shelf over here. This is your
future. This is your future in WordPress. And by the way, don’t criticize it because we did slap a beta
label on it. That’s not acceptable to me. I don’t know why that’s acceptable to some customers. That’s
not acceptable. I would never do that. We have never done that to my customers. Automatic CSS was my
opinion that it had to be rewritten and redesigned. Nobody said they weren’t, they, people were just like,
man, this is working for me. It’s fine. It was my opinion that it had to be rebuilt and redesigned
because I knew that it could be so much better. And so we invested a hundred thousand dollars
rebuilding it from the ground up, re-architecting it, redesigning it, adding, like bringing it into
what we thought was the next era of that doing, doing a UI and a workflow that nobody else was doing
at the time with any semblance of a framework, getting rid of all the things that I harped
about, the magic areas and the da-da-da-da-das. Okay. That’s what we do. Then with Etch, I said,
actually, I could have started a builder four years ago, three years ago, two years ago, any,
at any point along the way, people know anybody that’s been around since 2022, where people were like,
Kevin, build a builder, Kevin, do a builder, Kevin, do a builder. And I said, no, no, no. Why?
Because at the time I didn’t have a concept in my mind for something that would be fundamentally
different. And I did, I had a concepts of, it would be a little bit better if we did this. It would be a
little bit better if we did this. It would be a little bit better if we did this, but that always
gets a no. We don’t build shit. That’s a little bit better because customers deserve more than,
I mean, we could just collect the checks and ship you something that’s a little bit better.
Like I said, a minute ago, the bar is super, you could just step over the bar right now.
You don’t have to, you don’t have to hop. You don’t have to skip, fuck a high jump. You don’t
have to hop or skip. You could just step over the bar right now. We’re not willing to do that.
We’re not willing to ask people to spend a lot of money and then hope and have opportunity costs and
everything else that comes along with it. And then the cost of switching, there’s a tremendous cost
to switching platforms. Does this get you to switch from bricks? No, I guess. Well, first of all, it’s
worse, but like, even if it was a little bit better, would it get you to switch? No, no. We’re not going
to ask people to undergo those costs unless it’s fundamentally. And like literally a new era
is being ushered in. That is now we would like your money. Now we would like you to endure the
cost of switching. Now we would like you to get on board with us. When we have the vision and the
concept, that’s when we ask. Not before then. This is a money grab. This is the lowest common denominator
of shipping something to say you have it and to have a foot in that side of the market, which by the way,
Lewis did say on the live stream, this is all public information. Lewis said on the live stream that
that’s not a profitable market. They didn’t want to rebuild oxygen because there’s no money there.
The money is in beginners. That was essentially the takeaway from the live stream. Okay. I want to be
fair to build areas. We got to, we got to move on. Okay. Let’s get, let’s, let’s, we’re done. We’re done
with this. I will keep up. I need, I do need to keep up bricks for a minute. By the way, um, people,
people, you know, they’re like, does Kevin say good things about, you know, anything? Are there examples?
How much, how many good things have I said about bricks? How long have I been by bricks’s side?
How many copies of bricks do you think I’ve sold? Okay. Are there problems with bricks? Of course.
Are there going to be problems with etch? Of course. No builder is perfect. No builder is perfect. But what
I see from bricks is I see a dev team that is highly responsive. I see a dev team that clearly cares.
I see now I would like to see more from like, I would see, I would like to see more transparency.
I would like to see more of Thomas. I would like, but I, I understand like great actors, right? In,
in the space, not actors and like fake, but just like, you know, people behaving in, in the space.
Um, I like what I see there. Okay. It’s an era three tool. That’s it. It is the best era three tool
still to this day. In my opinion, it is an era three tool. Um, so there’s that, right? Uh, but yes,
I, I mean, if you’re like, what Kevin just shits on everything. No, no, I actually don’t quickly.
Now, when I did my very first look of quickly, I was very thrown off by the icon only UI. I really
hated it. I was also thrown off. I had a bad taste in my mouth in my mouth because it existed in
Gutenberg, which already annoyed me. Okay. Because, and that’s Gutenberg’s fault, not quickly’s fault,
but very quickly. I hate that name because I can’t even fucking say it without a pun. You can’t,
you can’t not pun it when you’re talking about it. Um, but I started to see one, I started to see
Lewis’s passion. Uh, and I’m talking about the, the quickly Lewis now started to see Lewis’s passion.
I started to see his technical proficiency. I started to see how personally involved and invested he was.
And I started to see the underlying power and a lot of what quickly was doing and a lot of ways that
they identified clear problems with the Gutenberg UX and UI and identified clear issues and limitations
with other page builders on the market. And they were actively working to solve those problems.
And I very quickly started supporting quickly. And then we integrated ACSS into quickly spent,
by the way, probably $10,000 plus integrating that into quickly. Okay. Um, and started to praise
quickly and started to tell people, yeah, that’s a great option. If you don’t mind the, the,
the Gutenberg workflow, that’s a, that’s, I would say that’s our, there are number two tool right now
behind bricks. I started praising quickly in so many capacities. Okay. Cause I do when I, when I see
that, that objective reality of the stuff that actually matters, it piques my interest and I,
I want to support it. I want to support it. I am not going to support a money grab. I’m not going to
support just fucking slapping shit together and, and, and, and keeping a low bar on everything.
I’m not, that’s not what I’m here to support. It’s not what we’re here to do. Um, and yes,
it is highly unfortunate that quickly disappeared. Um, and if you want to go back and find a live stream
where I got on and everybody, I said, if you bought quickly because of me, I have a voucher for you and
you can use that voucher to get ACSS or frames or the inner circle. I think we did like anything you
want. I have a voucher waiting for you. And hundreds and hundreds of people took me up on that voucher
and we stood behind it and we gave it to them. And that was my, this, I’m sorry. Like I misread the
situation. I thought they were here for the longterm and they’re not. So that’s on me. And I took
responsibility for it and I gave a voucher for it. That’s what we do. That’s what we do. Okay.
Uh, all right. So let’s go into build areas. Now I warned you, the oxygen side was not going to be,
was not going to be nice. So we’re going to take a sip of water. We’re going to take,
we’re going to clear our brain. We’re going to clear our palate. We are going to make our way into
build areas. Okay. Now the one downside of this is their pro elements are not ready yet. I was really,
really interested in their pro elements. I wanted to see the pro elements.
nevertheless, we can only do what we can do. Um,
I can’t wait for the same kind of live stream about bricks when etch drops. Let’s wait and see.
Um, I could do a comparison for sure. It wouldn’t have any animosity behind it. Like the way that it
does, because bricks is not a disrespectful offering. Bricks is an era three tool. It’s trying to be a
bunch of things to a bunch of different people. It is what it is. The idea that like, here’s the thing.
You build a new tool. You’re trying to innovate. You look at all of the problems and limitations of
existing tools, and then you resolve them. Then people are like, but you can’t tell us why
don’t, don’t do a video telling us why you resolve the problems or because then you’re just harping on
problems. Then you’re just harping. What? I mean,
if you don’t know why the thing was innovated and you don’t know why we went from this way to that
way, what do you want me to do? Like it’s, it’s the dumbest rule on planet earth. We’ll just harp on
what your builder does good. How do you know it’s good if you didn’t know what was bad? If you don’t
know what’s bad about that way, how do you know this way is better? But then, so I started explaining
the detail. Oh, that’s, he’s just shitting on the other tools. No, I’m just communicating
the thought process that went into going from this thing to that thing. It’s the dumbest rule on our,
it’s just so, by the way, the people who always say these kinds of things, zero products, zero videos,
zero education in the space. What are you doing to further what we’re all doing? Not much just going,
oh, it’s not fair to criticize the other tools. Okay. Okay. Sure. Sure. All right. Let’s add something.
By the way, I’m just, I’m not, I’m not a fan of panels covering panels. Let’s just, let’s just make
a general rule of like my panel shouldn’t cover your panel. Right. Okay. I want to make a section.
Oh, oh, oh, it exists. I’m going to add it. Okay. It’s a section with a container inside of it.
Let’s put something in the container so we can see some semblance of something on the page.
Okay. Let’s go with a, let’s go with a heading. Let’s go. Okay. I’m going to try to command click
heading. I just want to, nope. I’m going to try to option click heading. Nope. I’m going to try to
control click heading. Nope. Okay. What I’m looking for, this is why I like to have bricks up.
What are you guys noticing? You guys notice something? What are you noticing that I cannot
do right here? These are things I look for because immediately I know what slows down workflows and
what speeds up workflows. Okay. Oh, shift. Okay. Good. I’m glad build areas is here. Glad they’re here.
Okay. All right. Let’s try shift. Sorry. I tried every keyboard shortcut except shift. Okay. Good.
Perfect. All right. There is a pathway to doing that. All right. They, they automatically knew what
I was talking about. All right. Let’s start over. I do think it’s very interesting to see the main
page content. Okay. And the page content wrapper, which you cannot see in any other builder.
And that actually could come in quite handy. Let’s go add a section. Okay. And the next thing I’m going
to test is, is there a shortcut for delete? Is there a shortcut for delete? I’ve tried, I’ve tried a
couple of them and I’m not getting anything. Uh, okay. What I’m looking for is, it doesn’t have,
I would put your shortcuts if I’m just giving you a little tip in the, in the, uh, context menu right
there. Um, no. Okay. Well, we need a, uh, we need a shortcut for delete. Uh, let’s go add,
I’m going to, do I hold shift? How do I choose to make this a child? There we go. Okay. It’s command.
It looks like command makes it a child. So if I shift command, I get a heading and I get to keep my,
it’s a little bit of a, you know, it’s a lot of gymnastics over here with my fingers, but it’ll,
it’ll work, I guess. So let’s go with a, uh, text, text paragraph and a link. Okay. Now we’re rocking
and rolling. All right. One thing that I did not criticize an oxygen that you will not see me criticize
is general. So there is a initial layer of, it’s called a familiarization layer. There is a,
a learning curve of familiarization in any UI and you will never see me just outright start to
criticize things that fall into the familiarity bucket where it’s like, where is this thing? Or,
um, what’s the actual shortcut for doing this? Yada, yada. Those are familiarizations.
If you notice what I criticize in oxygen was major, major architectural issues, major,
major UI decision issues. And then within the context of, because they copied an outdated thing
and they didn’t even put any thought or care or effort into it, they deserve the criticism,
right? But if it falls into the familiarity bucket, that is a thing that you, nobody can criticize
anything that falls into the familiarity bucket because it exists with any UI on the planet.
Any UI on the planet has a level of familiar, familiarization that has to happen.
Okay. I’m going to save. I’m just going to go to the front end and take a look, see at what we’ve
got so far. What’s, what’s actually going on here. Let’s publish this to live. I think I should hit the
eyeball. Okay. Let’s inspect and let’s go in. So we’ve got our section. I’m not, I’m not super
stoked about these classes. Okay. Um, I want to see, okay. So there’s a section padding block and a
section padding inline already being applied. There’s no ACSS here. This is the builder. This
is the builder doing the builder things. I did read, I haven’t looked at it. I did read that there’s like
a, uh, almost like a starter framework, which obviously like somebody like me, I would delete
that. Right. Um, I don’t even know selector CSS vars. Okay. That’s a lot. That’s a lot. Uh,
is there a way to remove like, but I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want to remove it all. Maybe
where’s section. I don’t see section. Oh, there it is. Okay. Um, what happens if I delete those?
Obviously I’m going to lose that, but do I, do I, I guess they just don’t exist at all,
but what is it outputting? Okay. It’s outputting blank versions of them. Not, not awful. I’m kind of
on the fence about this. I was asking this question the other day. I’ve been, I’ve been contemplating it,
whether you want to use dummy variables or not. Right. It now exists as like a dummy token where
the browser doesn’t actually process this. Uh, it just ends up with like a zero value,
but it can cause specificity issues because you are declaring something. Um, now you’re declaring it
at the element level, which is a very low specificity. I would love to see it declared much like this or in
a layer where it’s literally zero. So it’s a zero, zero, zero specificity, or it’s just in a layer
that is, has no influence over other CSS that’s, that’s happening. But generally speaking, I mean,
if I came in and tried to, uh, override section styling with ACSS or something, it would now come
down to loading order. Actually ACSS would lose because ACSS applies element styling with no specificity.
So right off the bat, we would have a problem with ACSS because it would lose. Um, whereas if this
wasn’t a layer or it was weird, it would not, ACSS would not lose. So if it has any specificity at all,
it is, it is potentially causing a problem.
Okay. Um, you could just edit the style CSS. Um, all right, I’m going to go back in
section here. Okay. Let’s add a, uh, you mean right here? No, this is just the HTML tag style.
Okay. There is a route. So you are styling all sections right here. Apparently.
I don’t know. I don’t know if this route applies to that ID class or if it actually applies to
the section. So we are going to find out. These are the things that I explore. You know,
most users are like, can I add a block to a page? Can I, I explore like we, we got to go much. I,
I already assume you can drag something onto the page, right? I want to see the output. I want to
see the architecture. I want to see the logic. I want to see different things. Okay. Um, so I’m
going to, I’m going to apply a style to this. Uh, let’s go with spacing and let’s go with, um, 5M.
Oh, look, look, we don’t have the problem. I don’t think I, okay.
We can talk about this architecturally. Um, I don’t, I don’t like that happening. I don’t,
I don’t like the stripping and the, and the moving of the unit. And I actually, if you’re in
the edge community, I literally a couple of days ago, like just maybe yesterday, just put a long
thing about how we are going to provide blank inputs and no unit selectors, no unit parsing.
No, none of that. Okay. Cause it’s, it’s one, it’s not necessary to, it adds a lot of complexity
to the architecture and it interferes with a lot of, a lot of things. Here’s a, uh, interference.
Actually, they’ve solved it a little bit. And the fact that it comes back when I click it,
uh, we could go back into oxygen and see that this does not happen where when, once it strips it,
you are left with a unit list value, which means you cannot then copy it and paste it to other inputs.
Fucking nightmare, nightmare. And again, something I could have identified in five minutes and told
him, don’t do that. Don’t do that. Nope. You got to fix that before you ship that to the public.
You better fix that. Right. At least here you get it back. So it strips it, but then you,
then you get it back. See, now I can copy it and paste it. Right. Um, so they, they saw that as a
potential problem and already accounted for it, which is good to see. I do. I do say that is good
to see. Um, so we’ve got, we’ve got some, some of that there. Let’s just go look on the front end.
Now we’re going to go back and we’re going to see what has happened. What had happened was,
all right. So there you go. So we just got our answer it. Oh, don’t really like that. I don’t
really like zero to zero because there’s no reason, uh, for this to be zero to zero specificity.
Uh, now you, you get in an architectural discussion about, should we let the user style the actual HTML
element here? Lots of users might get confused. Their styling might keep changing. Yada, yada,
yada. Okay. Well, if it’s a pro, if you’re designing for, they’re not going to get confused.
Um, it would be a learning curve for beginners. You could create a different area for doing this
potentially. Um, but if you are going to have this root selector style, a class, just have it style one
class, right? Not a combo class, not a zero to zero situation. Um, I would also like to see,
you know, this is the output. Um, actually I would like to see, this is what we’re going to output.
That’s what we’re going to output. Uh, we’ve been talking about this architecturally, right? Um,
because logical properties is, is like the next era, the next era of, we’re next era tool.
Logical properties is the next era. ACSS uses logical properties. Um, I don’t know if you can change the,
uh, output. Like you can opt into logical property. I don’t know. I don’t know, but I would output
logical properties. Okay. Let’s do a background and let’s do, um, let’s make a, let’s make a token.
Um, I would like to be able to make a token from this right here. Cause if I like, there’s something
that doesn’t exist, it tells me it’s not found. It’d be nice if I had a pathway to making it from
there. Now these are primary that I didn’t add. I would obviously using ACSS, we want to use our own.
Um, I don’t know what the pathway is right now to doing that, but there’s no secondary. For example,
I would like to make it. So I have to, I have to basically go womp womp, right? And I have to,
I have to like probably go somewhere else. So now it’s going to be, let’s go over here.
New variable. Uh, oh, wow. I got to upgrade. Yeah. See, see, they got me. They got me with the pro.
Okay. I got to get out my checkbook. Got to Elvis, Elvis. I didn’t bring my checkbook, my man. I don’t
know. No, I did buy it. Listen, I bought build areas. I bought build areas pro and not like these other
mofos that buy ACSS, grab like these other develop. I’m going to tell you right now,
there’s developers out there. I’m not going to, I’m not going to call them out. Don’t worry.
I’m not, nobody needs to know their name, but they buy ACSS. They buy frames just so they can
play with it and use it and figure it out and dissect it and backwards dah, dah, dah.
And then they ask for a refund. And then, cause so they just get it and they don’t pay. And I know
they’re a dev and I, like, I know they’re, they have competing products. I know they’re trying to
reverse engineer shit and I give them their refund. I give them their refund. I send them on their way.
I buy every single one of these. So you think I asked for the refund? Nope. Nope. I buy it just
to support them. Honestly, I don’t give a fuck. No sweat off my back.
Um, okay. Let’s see. What do we want to look at here? I wanted to look at the loops,
but I can’t cause they’re pro. I Elvis, what do you want me to look at?
I mean, we have the general, like, I mean, it’s, it’s the, it’s the accordion situation.
Um, standard. This is, this is standard and pretty much everything. How about custom CSS?
I want to write myself some custom CSS. I want to, I want to make a class called my section.
I want to write some custom CSS. Where am I going to go for this? Let’s see.
Um, here we go. Nope. That’s variables. Can I make one here or is this still pro?
What is this? Oh, there’s like a locally scoped variable. I could do something like BG color or
something. And I could do like, let’s do red. Is that, is that correct? And then maybe I could
come up here and I could go backgrounds. Do I get that variable as an option?
No. Uh, do I, I can use it here though. Right.
Um, do I have to save first? Do I have to do something magical?
Oh wait. It didn’t save it down here. Uh, CSS variable, CSS variable name B BG color red. Ah,
I don’t know what I did wrong before, but it’s working now. Okay. So let’s go. Oh, wait. Oh,
I wasn’t doing that on the class. Shit. Okay. Let’s go back. Let’s go to, this is why I hate input
workflows, by the way. Uh, like obviously, so etch is going to allow you to opt in. Do you want to
CSS for first workflow or a, or an input first workflow? Right. Um, but this is the, this is
the, just the natural problem with inputs is like, they’re all fucking over the place. There is a
secret though in etch that when you use the inputs, you don’t have the problems that are native to an
input based workflow. Um, so we’re, we’re actually going to make inputs great again. We are, we,
I think, I think we’re going to make inputs great again. Uh, we’ll see, but you don’t have to use
them. You don’t have to use them. Uh, okay. So these are like, yeah, this is a good way to make
like locally scoped variables, but, but here’s my, here’s, here’s my fundamental, uh, question.
So if I do this at the section level, does the bill, Oh, there, there it is. Oh, so, well,
that answers my question. Oh, I put three dashes. That’s my fault. I’m a fucking idiot. Um, okay.
That wasn’t bill Darius’s fault. That was Kevin’s fault. Um, and it already answered a question
that I was just about to fucking ask, which was, does it remember which locally scope variables are
kind of like associated with selectors? And I think it does. So what we’re going to see here
is I’m going to, what does close do? Oh, uh, is that my only option there? I kind of want to remove it.
Oh, Oh dear. That’s isn’t this X supposed to remove it. Oh, okay. Well, it didn’t do that the
first time. All right. So if I add that back, I should also see the locally scope variable.
Very nice. I like this. The bricks does not do this. This is something that I’ve, I’ve wanted for a
while. Uh, this would be, this is an example of clearly they have realized that when you use locally
scoped variables, it’s annoying when they’re not exposed to the input UI. And it’s annoying when
you have to go look at the CSS to figure out what they are. So you can then go back and like assign
values to them somewhere else. Um, so that’s nice. I like that new CSS property. Oh, this is for,
this is okay. So this is to solve the problem of, we gave you a bunch of properties, but because CSS
moves quick, or maybe we didn’t give you a property you wanted, you can name your own property and give
it a value right here. And then it’ll have an input UI. Also something you can’t do in bricks. Also
something you can’t do in most builders. Also good to see. Um, these are examples of problems being
solved. You, do you see what like effort? This is what effort looks like versus like phoned in,
no effort in the previous example. Okay. Uh, but I still haven’t found my CSS. Where is upgrade? Oh,
fuck. Yeah. I got to get my wallet again. Okay.
I can’t install pro, right? I can’t, I can’t look at this side of it. Okay. Um,
all right. Uh, uh, yeah, yeah. You tell them Boulder, you, you set these people straight,
set these people straight, set these people straight. Okay. Um, I can’t go to CSS. I can’t
go to loops. I can’t go to dynamic data. I can’t go to, uh, what, what can I go to Elvis? What do you
want me to look at? What do you, I will go in your direction. What is, give me something special.
Say, Kevin, there’s this fucking super special thing you haven’t seen yet. I want you to see it.
I’m looking down here. I got to upgrade to access the code editor, the, okay. There’s JavaScript.
There’s libraries. There’s date. Get off me. This cord’s trying to jujitsu me over here.
I’m tapping out dog. Get off me. Okay. Um, what do you want me to see Elvis?
Loops are collections. Okay. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Let me add a, let me add a,
a collection. Okay. Oh, oh shit. Broke something. Let’s do it again. Uh, in this section,
let’s add a collection collection. Okay. Data source. We need a data source, data source,
nav menu. I don’t know. I need a data source. Do I have to go to a magic area for this?
Can I create a data source in here before I leave that, this area? I just want to know that,
is that, I need an answer. Go to archive template. Where’s that? These are template conditions.
My, okay. Is that out? Do I have to, oh, up here? Hold on. Ah, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
Okay. We got components. We got pages. We got templates. Hmm. No, go to, okay. You can loop through,
uh, go to archive. Where do I, I don’t have an archive template. Create template. All archives,
save and open. Okay. What do I do here? I need docs. Uh, create one. Yes. Okay. Save. Do I have to
assign it? Oh, condition condition. Uh, I don’t really, I don’t have it. Archive is the problem.
So I don’t know where to assign it to. I don’t know why I’m making an archive template.
logo. Click it. Got it. Okay. Do you want to come on here? Uh, Elvis?
Yeah, we, we, look, we can get weird. Look, this is not a, this is not a hobby situation. Okay.
Let me go. Elvis, check your D check your DMS. Elvis is here. I’m gonna let Elvis come on. We,
we, we got a little bit, we got a little bit left. I told you we’re going to go over a little bit.
Um, let me do something real quick. Let me do something real quick. Let me do a little,
little quick thing here. Watch, watch. You’re going to see Elvis in just a second. I mean,
I’m putting you on the spot, Elvis. I’m, I’m, I’m putting you on the spot. You don’t have to do this.
You don’t have to do this, but let me, uh, let me bring this over here.
Now you’re going to whip through it, Elvis. I, you’re going to, I want people to see how it’s
supposed to be done. Well, they don’t need me fumbling through it. All right, let’s go to,
okay. All right. Check your DM, uh, Facebook. Check your FB Elvis. I’m not, I’m not in your
only fan. So I gotta, I gotta message you on a Facebook.
I mean, I’ll buy your only fans too. I told you I support the cause. Okay. But
I probably won’t ever log into it, but if you, you need, if you need me to support, I will
see if Elvis shows up here.
Oh, he’s putting on a nice shirt. Yeah.
Hello. You hear me?
Oh yeah. We can hear you. Can everybody hear Elvis?
Hold on. Hold on. Maybe I don’t, maybe I don’t.
Yeah. I hear you. It’s just some, my camera is for some reason, wait a second.
Uh, let me do this without the camera because I’m on the phone walking my dog.
Okay. No problem. Look, I’ll just, I’ll, they’ll see my screen. I think they can hear you. Can
everybody hear Elvis? Yeah.
Okay. All right. He didn’t, yeah, he didn’t, we don’t need to see him. All right. What do I need to do?
Okay. So let me just tell you, you’re using the free version. So you can use two kinds of loops.
You can use post loop. If you’re on the archive template, because we’re using, we are using the
main query that the template hierarchy does on its own. So you don’t have to pass any arguments,
just pick up posts from the data sources like you did, but you have to be on the archive or index blocks,
blog templates to be able to do that. The other kind of, uh, loop you can do, you can loop anything
through rest API. So if you want to loop some famous blog, go there, pick up post, uh, post, uh,
endpoint, and you will get all the little fields, titles, content, everything there. You can loop it right now.
So you can do a lot, uh, but it’s a little bit different. So we’re not doing it in the same way.
There will be more UI in the pro right now, a little bit of dev’s job, but it’s not that hard.
For instance, to loop the posts, be in the archive page, add collection, choose posts as the source.
It will be there. And then you can just, uh, add elements into the loop and pull title and content and
feature image and stuff like that. Okay. I’m trying to, so step one, trying to create a post loop,
right? Yeah. Yeah. So if you’re in the archive template, just add a collection. Uh, I did that.
I added it. I, I, I put a div inside the template. I put a heading inside the div. I just don’t see
anything. Okay. Okay. So now go to collection itself. Select it. Yeah. Okay. In the settings,
that will be data source. So pick posts. It only has archive posts. Yeah. That’s it. Okay. Pick it.
Um, I still don’t see anything on the page. Yeah. It should be there. It says, oops, we have a huge
problem here. That’s what it says. Let’s go to, uh, just check collection. It’s a little bit post.
And doesn’t go. No, let me start over. All right. We’re going to go, uh, add a collection.
I mean, that’s a bug. It should, it should have seen like repeating items now.
Archive posts. I chose, I chose archive posts. So now I would just, I’m just going to put a heading in here.
Yeah. Yeah. See, I don’t see, I don’t see the heading.
That’s weird. Can you like the right, right click on the collection and choose, uh, run.
That’s the way that I like to force it to fetch.
I did that and it’s not rerunning.
Well, that’s a bug then or something that I don’t know that you’re doing. Uh, it should be like,
if you’re in the archive template, uh, if you have posts, you should be able to see them for now.
Uh, it’s like, I don’t have, I may not have posts. I mean, let’s, let me see. Let me go.
Cause I didn’t, I didn’t, this is just a blank install. So we, I just need to know how to get back to the admin.
Let me go. You gotta get back. Uh, so, so the logo is, logo is to get to the admin. Go to logo.
You have options like. Hello world. There is hello world. There is a post in there. So
we should be, we should be seeing something you’re saying. I don’t have to assign this anywhere.
No, that’s everything is no magic area. Okay. All right. It’s just, if you’re not.
It’s okay. I don’t know what you’re right. I’m going to send you, you know what I’m going to do.
Cause I, because I see a lot, a lot of, uh, a lot of users, they develop on local and then they go,
I’m having a problem. And I go, great. Send me a link. I’d love to log in and see it. And they’re
like, I can’t do that. I’m like, why are you building on local? So I’m not on local, right? I can send you
a link to this install. If you want to log in, if you want to poke around, if you want to see what’s
going haywire with it, and then, um, if you can get it working, you can let us know.
Yeah. If you think I’m on the mobile.
Yeah. I’m not right now. Not right now. Yeah. Not right now. We’ll get it though.
We’ll have you back. We’ll have you back. Is there anything else I need to look at while I have you?
No, no. So I’ll repeat quickly. Make a template, which is an archive. Other collection, choose the source
and add stuff into the template. It should run. If it doesn’t, then some sort of bug.
Okay. Is there anything besides collections? Is there anything that, you know, like you want to,
you want to, you say, Hey, we did this innovative thing. I want you to see it. Is there anything else
that we need to look at?
Yeah. You have any, any collector you can imagine. So when you’re in any
element up there where there’s a root, you can just start typing whatever you want to type,
like you’re in your code. Okay. And it works.
I’ll go back here.
Additionally, just to explain the root, root is what in the bricks ID level is. We just don’t want ID,
which is why 020, it has to be able to override global stuff. Everything else, like custom classes,
will be just custom classes. So if you make like my class, it’s just out in my class.
Got it. Let me see what’s going on with this. I’m getting a warning.
Another thing you might want to try is releases. This is our Git like thing. So for instance,
if you now share your links, nobody will think anything you did because you are now all of this
time in the dead mode. So when you’re done, go to releases, make a release, publish it, and then it’s
active. Got it. So check that. Okay. All right. Let me see. Publish to live. All right. So I can do,
hold on. I’m trying to, oh, styles. Okay. So I can do any, any select, like I can do,
uh, I can do my, do I have to put a dot and selectors? My selects H H one. Like I can do something like that.
Uh, that adds that. It just adds an H one. Let me see. You can do combo selectors
or no. Did we lose them? I think we lost him. All right. I think we lost Elvis.
Hmm. Oh yeah. I see on his, he’s Elvis is loading. He’s loading right now. Um, okay.
Uh, start with root. Um, okay. Hang on, hang on, hang on root.
I don’t know what start with root means.
Is there a like literally type it like root H one. Ah, got it. Okay. So it’s based on a dynamic
root selector. So now I can do, uh, the, the, the, the, the typography and F F F.
Hmm. Okay. Uh,
don’t know about that. Maybe I’m doing something wrong again.
That should work right. Root H one. Uh, let’s see. Let’s see. I’m curious here. I’m curious now.
Curious now. Inspect. I bet you.
Oh, it’s an H two. That’s why. Yeah. That’s why. That’s why. Root.
H two. Okay. Good.
Challenge here is again, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna check on specificity here and just see how
this is actually coming out. Zero, two, one. Like I, uh, Elvis, I would really love to see zero,
one, one here. Zero, one, one. I would just, I would just really love to see that.
I know you’re trying to, uh, you, uh, obviously avoiding IDs styling is very, is very good. I mean,
I assume I can force an ID. Yeah. Like I can come in here and say, uh, my section like that. And then I
could, and I could do, um, I don’t, how do you do like a my section H one kind of thing?
Let’s do my, I don’t, I don’t think you can do this though.
Yeah, you can’t.
Um, and the root. So yeah, so you can’t do chop. You can’t do combo selectors like that
off of any, any selector. You can just do it off of the root, which is actually, you can’t even do it.
I don’t think you can do it. Yeah. You can’t do it off another selector too. So you can’t do it off
my section H one. It has to be off of the ID class and then the element. And then in my opinion,
it just gives you a little too much specificity. Zero, zero to one can cause other, other issues.
Um, he says you can, but I, I’m not, I’m not seeing it.
Root. See root H two is going to be off of the ID selector.
All right. Well, Elvis, we’ll have to have you back. Cause what I’m going to do,
I’m going to throw a bunch of stuff at you and you’re just going to demo it. You’re just going to
show us, right? Um, when I try to do it, that input for either global class based selectors
only, or local element level selectors. Go to the selectors panel. Oh, you have to do it over here.
You’re saying, okay, so I can’t, but I can’t do it in line. Is that correct? I can’t do it like
in line in the workflow, the, like the place I was already at. So I have to come over here and I have
to do a new selector. So I would have to do, uh, my section H one and then did that add it somewhere?
Oh, hold on. Hold on. Elvis is back.
Hi. Hey. Hi.
So do you hear me? I can hear you. Yes. We can hear you. Okay. So, so let’s do a selector,
selector, which is the global selector, which selects, for instance, every H two in a section,
uh, go to selectors, which if you look at the navigator panel, which is your right panel,
I’m there. You have all the, we can, we think of it, all the web, web development entities, right?
Yes. Yes.
So some of, some are HTML elements, some are selectors, some are vars, right? So all of these
are like different things. So choose selectors and in the input, start typing, whatever you want to
type. Uh, I’m going to go. Yeah. My section H one, uh, H two, H two. I want to select all H two.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So press enter. And now you have the selector and it should be selected for you. And now
you can start adding styles in the left panel, like you would on any class. Got it. The only thing I
was asked. Yeah. So what I was asking is it, what, what it would be nice to be able to do is, um, add
that selector from the selectors panel on the element itself. And then also have it show up there because
I don’t, when I select that section, that is actually a making this heading white. I’m not,
I can’t see in that area, that selectors area, that that selector is affecting this section, right? Um,
it, cause it only exists in this area over here. That’s like library essentially.
So, so, so we were thinking about this a lot. So let me, uh, let me tell you what the thinking was.
You maybe disagree, but just to understand, it’s not like we forgot.
The, uh, the input on the elements, which is on the left side, right? When you have some element
selected, then you want to add a class to it or something serves. It’s like a multi-purpose thing. So the
most common one is a class. Uh, and that one you can add, but just stop typing, whatever it’s going to add
the dot for you. If you want, uh, so what many people want, if they use a lot of utilities, they
want to like, just drop a lot of them, right? So if you make spaces in your selector there, it’s going
to break them down in classes for people that love utilities. I’m not one of them, but there are such
people. Uh, so, so that’s one, one reason. Then second, uh, Builderius is a component based architecture.
So one of those things is to make locally scoped CSS. So, uh, the way to make, uh, different kinds
of combo selectors, but scope them is to start with root. So percent, root percent, and then whatever.
You will now create a combo selector or whatever kind of selector you want. Only it’s going to choose
children of the currently selected element. Root is like this, like right now this, and then anything
inside. So this provides you a way of kind of grouping CSS in little chunks. It’s not, not everything is
global, right? Uh, so that was the thinking there. Uh, if you want to add the ID selector from there,
you can do root, but it goes percent, hashtag root percent. That will make an ID for you.
Um, another way to make an ID or class or anything and also use dynamic data is to go to content,
scroll down to attributes. And there you have ways to use like, I don’t know, um, ACF data to
be making your classes. Okay. So these are like all the, all the ways you can do it. Uh, so simple
point is in the selectors panel, you will be doing global stuff until we have fraud. Then you’re going to,
going to have scoping to template. You have these buttons on the top template global. That’s for that.
Uh, on the, on the element itself, it’s local. And then you can also have dynamic data in the attributes
themselves. Got it. All right. I know you’re on a walk, so it’s gonna be hard for you to follow
along. Plus there’s a delay on YouTube. So what I’m going to do to just show everybody, cause I also,
and this is for you to rewatch later. Like my, my suggestion would be for the dynamic
root selector kind of concept right now, that dynamic root selector only applies to the ID generated class
on the element, which you said scopes those styles to that specific element. Um, the problem is, is,
and I love scope styles. I really, really love scope styles. The problem with that workflow is
that for example, if somebody uses a BIM, so, and this is for everybody watching too, we do my card,
and then we would do my card double underscore heading. And then, and I’m just going to highlight
the, this is a problem with page builders in general. Um, these are, these are the things that
we’re just trying to trying to fix. Um, so this would be like text and then we would have, uh,
my card link, right? So my card double underscore link. And now what I want to do, because if I use
the inputs, I obviously I can go to any of these classes, like my card heading, I want the color to
be red. Fantastic. Now the heading is going to be red in all instances of my card, which is fantastic.
However, if I, and I’m assuming like net, cause now what I’m going to do, whoops,
that’s not duplicate. Um, what I’m going to do is duplicate. We really need Elvis.
Uh, like I will buy pro plus right now. If you can give me a duplicate, uh, shortcut.
Um, okay. It’s in the works. We have some shortcuts, like copy paste works. Okay. And there’s more,
but, uh, but yeah, not already. Yeah. If I could get a duplicate short, I will be,
I will subscribe to your only fans. Um, okay. So, you know, you actually, you know,
you actually bought the plugin, although we already gave you the, gave you the license before.
So here we go. Okay. I am going to root H2 this and we are going to color red. And so there’s the,
there’s the, the issue that we’re highlighting is that I’m not able, I, I want to scope the H2 styles
to my card. Uh, but the only way to do that dynamic selector is, is you can’t do it off of my card.
You can only do it off of the ID generated selector, which to me is a, is a limitation.
Um, because here’s the thing I can go to, I can obviously go to the class and everybody’s going
to say, go to the class and do, and do red. And they’re all going to be red. I totally get this.
The, the tremendous cost of the, of an input first UI is that you scatter styles, you scatter CSS.
So anybody that knows, uh, that uses inputs on a, on a regular basis. And then when you need custom CSS,
this gets even worse because now it introduces the concept of where is my styles, where the
fuck are my styles coming from? It could be in custom. Okay.
So now I have another, and I have another reason for you to buy another one.
Yes.
Plus pro.
Yes.
Plus pro plus.
Left, left, left column on the top.
Yes.
There is a little button that says pro on it.
Yes.
When you click it, uh, the entire left area becomes the code editor and you can see all CSS
you have been doing through the UI. You can continue coding, go back and use the UI. You can
look at them by element or you can buy selector or, or you can, you look at them all at once, but that’s
pro. Uh, so that’s something we, that excites me, Elvis. I need that.
So your, your CSS will all live in the same place.
Good.
That’s not going to be a problem.
I need that. Um, and yes, because the scattering is a problem. So you can, the way we get around
scattering, like if I go back to bricks, um, because of a dynamic route selector. So I’m going to,
I’m going to do the same thing in bricks, which won’t take long because we can auto-bim it. So I’m just
going to add a div and we will add a, uh, we’ll just add some elements to it. So we’ll do the same things.
We’ll go heading text and link. Okay. Um, and bricks is having trouble keeping up these days with things.
If we are being critical here, get the link on the page bricks, get the link on the page. There we go.
Okay. Um, so what I’m going to do is I’m going to say my card,
my card, and then we’re going to auto-bim it. And this is going to give us all of our classes,
which is fantastic. Oh, we got to turn off. I don’t want, I don’t want to cheat. I don’t want to
cheat. Let’s turn off automatically style cards. Okay. So we’ll turn that off.
All right. And this is for everybody. Um, that’s watching this, how you get around
the scattered styles. First of all, you opt in for a CSS first workflow. Then you can do things like
roots and you can do your padding, you know, like this card padding. Okay. And then if I want to do
something to the heading, I got a couple of different ways I can do that. One is, um, if I,
if I don’t want to affect specificity, I just do this. Right. Because I know that I named it double
underscore heading. I can just root selector it heading. And then I could say color red. Right.
And then this is going to be all instances of this card. And then now I can come in here and I can say
text because that’s my text. And I can say color blue. And now I have, did I call it text? I called
it text basic. Okay. So text basic. Okay. Now they’re all going to be blue. And so now I have a unified,
like I never am lost on my CSS, but the minute you start using inputs for anything, you’re
scattering styles and it is a maintainability efficiency nightmare. I will, I will let everybody,
this problem is solved in etch. Um, it, you can use, that’s why I said, we’re making inputs great
again. We’re making input inputs great again, but this is the common problem that we are, should be
trying to solve. Uh, I know it’s a problem that Elvis is thinking about because, uh, you can tell
they’re thinking about lots of things and considering lots of things. It is a problem that oxygen is not
thinking about because they don’t think at oxygen. They just, uh, duplicate, they just duplicate things
that already exist. And, uh, there’s not, not a lot of thinking going on over there. Um, okay.
Okay. So we have, uh, things we’ll talk Thursday. I’m going to show you some stuff.
Yes. But, uh, we think we also have a solution for that. It’s just, uh, hard over phone. So let’s,
let’s, let’s, let’s continue later. Yes. Yes. Thank you for coming on Elvis. And I’ll see you
on Thursday. Um, and just to let everybody know, we are doing a, uh, we’re doing a, uh, a build series
on Thursday. So Elvis, if you want to see more of build areas, you’ll, you’ll be able to see him using
it, which is even better because that’s what we want to see. We want to see the efficient guy use it.
Um, I was already prepared for the, first of all, I saw build areas for five minutes before this live
stream. And I was all ready to say, uh, I, I am far more excited about build areas than, than oxygen six.
Um, and again, it goes back to all of the context that we talked about. Uh, if you, I’m going to start
publishing this stuff publicly soon, but you can’t imagine the amount of scrutinizing of minor details
that real, like real engineers of, of like software go through the, the debates that we
have behind the scenes, the arguments that we have behind the scenes, the try it this way,
then this way, then this way, then this way behind the scenes down to down to, there’s a perfect example.
Notice that these inputs are unit list inputs. We have come to the conclusion that this is how it
should be done. And if you go into web flow, you go into Oxy six, you go into a lot of different
interfaces and you see units that lets you know, this is not, this is not, there’s not a lot of thought has been
put into this because the amount of what I I’ll give you the conclusion that I, that I came to
for units in CSS inputs. The reason that they are put there is for beginners because the argument is
beginners don’t know what units are available. Therefore they need to be prompted with their
options. And so this is what the builders, they, they, they ask the question, how do we make an interface
easy for beginners? That is the fundamental premise of nearly every page builder except build areas, uh,
apparently. Um, so etch, the reason etch is radically different is because it asks a radically different
question. It does not ask that question. It asks, how can we truly innovate the workflow for professionals
and aspiring professionals? That is the question. So if you change the question, you get radically
different answers. Now, what does, does the unit selector actually solve the problem for beginners?
My argument is it solves it for two weeks because if you, if you are just learning, you’re learning,
you’re getting better. You’re using, you’re like, after two to three weeks, you know, you can just write PX,
you know, you can write M. If you watch one video in page building 101, you also know how all of these
units work and you can write VH and you can write VW and you can even write VMAX and VMIN and you can
write a lot of different things. Okay. And so it is a feature that by the way, adds a lot of complexity,
uh, and to the architecture that has to be managed and maintained and could cause problems in the future.
When we talk about adding AI layers and stuff like that, or context menu workflows, it can add a lot
of complexity. If you think about a unit, if you’re not familiar with how a software development works,
look at this box right here. This is a very simple box. If I go 50 characters, take what’s in the box,
output it in the style sheet, done deal, move on with your life. And everybody’s happy. Everybody’s happy.
I I’m fucking perfectly happy with that. I love that. I couldn’t love that any more than I already
love it. Okay. The minute you say, nah, what we should do, we should have, we should have a unit
selector. Okay. So now this is a component. This input is a component. You now have to build a new
component or a component variant that says, okay, but this kind of input has a selector, uh, a unit
dropdown. Now you have to populate that dropdown with some sort of Jason file and you have to keep
it up to date with all of the available units. And then what you have to do, because nobody want,
like what happens if the user writes 40 characters, but then there’s a pixel thing over here. You have
to now build in logic to strip the units. And then after you strip the unit, you have to sync the unit
with the dropdown and you have to keep them synced. Right. And then if you don’t restore them,
when the, when the, when the person clicks into the input, if you don’t restore the unit for them,
they can’t copy the full value to their clipboard and paste it somewhere else, which is a big disturbance
for the user. That’s terrible workflow. That’s terrible UX. Look at how this decision, oh, we need
to have unit inputs. That’s what’s easy for beginners. Look at all of the complexity that is
required to achieve that. And then I came to the conclusion and then it only solves that problem
for two weeks, essentially holds their hand for two weeks. And then they know what the units are.
And guess what? After that two weeks, when they know what the unit is, they don’t want the selector
anymore. They don’t want the unit dropdown. It only gets in their way. How has builder after builder
builder, divvy element or element was fucking notorious for this. First of all, element didn’t
even give you for a long time, a unit list input. You were forced to have a unit. Can you imagine that?
And then when you try to sync them or copy them from one to the other, they were forced to all be the
same. You couldn’t use M’s on the block axis and pixels on the inline axis. That was not allowed in
element, or I think you still might not be able to do that. The tremendous amount of limitation and
nobody was able to say, this is fucking stupid. Why are we doing it this way? Let’s just give them an input,
let them write the value, map it out, and no problems, no complicate. Because they asked the wrong question.
They built the software for the wrong people. Okay? It’s nice to see bricks go, you know what? We’re not
going to baby people with the input selector that just gets in everybody else’s way. We’re not going to baby them
for two weeks until they actually learn what the units are, which begs another question.
If you don’t know what VW does,
You probably shouldn’t be using it. So the fact that we can select it from a drop down doesn’t even help you.
It doesn’t even help the person. They don’t know what it does.
Why, why, why, why give it to them as an option?
If they, if they know what it does,
they already know what it is and they can just type it and say, that’s what I want.
And now we have variable first workflows,
unit selectors get in the way of variables.
It is, it’s, it’s tremendous. There’s so much philosophy that goes into these, that should,
I’m sorry, I’m sorry, that should go into these tools. And so when a, when a team essentially
phones it in and doesn’t put any of that work behind what they’re building, that can’t be respected.
It can’t, you should feel disrespected as a user of the tool. Okay.
We got to get out of here. Yeah, I know. I know. But I did warn people,
Calisthenics Ireland. I gave a disclaimer on this.
Okay. I’m just going to go through the chat before we leave real quick.
And by the way, Oxygen would not have gotten all that criticism
if they didn’t copy the builders that already have that laundry list of criticisms. Like
you’re guilty of copying all of the problems. Like you didn’t solve anything.
Okay. And it’s not that they didn’t know these things were a problem. I mean, God,
I’ve been harping on these things for, I give people the answers. If somebody is building a
competing product, I give you the answers, a hundreds of hours of video that you could go
through. All the answers are there. I publicly publish half this shit on my blog. Like
it’s just a choosing to ignore. It’s choosing to ignore. And that’s, that’s,
you can’t escape the criticism. At some point you’re opting in.
I’m just reading the chat real quick. I never get to read the chat. I never get to read the chat.
We’re going to have to do a separate Q and a, uh, cause I, I didn’t even get to questions. This has
been an absolute dumpster fire of a stream. My apologies. I knew it wasn’t going to go well
because it was just, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I know people, I know people love it. I know the
consensus is great. It’s entertaining. It’s all, it’s all the things. The general conclusion is like,
you guys need to support the builders who are actually pushing things forward, whether that’s
me, whether that’s Elvis, whether that’s whatever, um, we are moving into an era for like you need to
be using era for tools. And I know like, this is just more ammunition for people to shit on and,
and direct hate and everything else. My, the amount of hate mail that I get like, and, and hate comments
and I, I, you know, you expect it, right. But it’s, it doesn’t do, it doesn’t do me doing this.
Doesn’t do me any favors. You know, I can be like Thomas. I can be like fucking Switzerland, you know,
just don’t get involved. Just don’t just keep all your, keep, keep all your comments to yourself.
But I was commenting the other day that like, do you know how many people I have rescued from going
down very dark, deep, expensive rabbit holes by doing this kind of thing? Do you know how many
people thank me for, you know, they, like a guy, I can’t remember who it was specifically, but he
commented the other day and he was like, I really appreciate the, this kind of like open, um,
criticism and honesty of a tool because when I came into the game, I was going from channel to
channel to channel. And it was all these people going, ah, you can use whatever you want. You
could use whatever makes you feel good. You could do things however you want. And they were like,
you know what, when everybody’s saying that you’re rudderless, you, you don’t know, you never know
what direction you’re supposed to go in because everybody’s just like, it’s just a fucking big
kumbaya. And then I went to Elementor and got lost there for six months. I went to Divi. I got lost
there for six months. It was only until page building one-on-one saying, this is wrong. This is
right. These tools aren’t doing it well. These tools are doing it well that I finally had some
semblance of direction and I could actually go and be productive and I could actually learn
fundamentals and I could actually up my skills and I can, it requires the opinions. It requires the
opinions. It requires not kumbaya-ing everything to death. It requires calling out money grabs when it’s
an obvious money grab. And the people have the fucking nerve to say that anything we’re doing is a money
grab when we’re putting extra, the, the, the most attention to detail, the most philosophizing,
the most consideration for the end user and their workflow. And they’re going to call us a money grab
and then they’re going to go defend the actual money grabs. It’s fucking ludicrous. It’s ludicrous.
It there, there, there, it makes no sense. They’re doing it for personal reasons because they don’t like
my attitude or they don’t like my personality. They don’t like the fact that, uh, like what,
pick anything, pick anything, any attribute of, of Kevin. They don’t like it. So they’re just going to,
they’re just going to make these fairy tales up and then they’re going to go off and defend the
actual tools that are in fact, the money grabs. It’s just, it’s fucking dumb. It’s just dumb.
Um, yes. Child levels of, of immaturity. A hundred percent. Okay. I’m getting out of here.
I’m going to go read all the hate mail. That’s now filling my inbox. Most likely. Um, I will be,
um, you know, back with Elvis on Thursday. We’ll be looking at some things and March, end of March is,
it’s not officially dated on the schedule yet, but you guys will get to see etch. If you’re not inside,
you, you will get to see the progress. It’s six months worth of progress. Um, we think there’s some
very cool things to show you. It is not a, a UI that is, that looks anything like the, like that was a
big, big, big decision. There’s the benefits of, well, things to feel familiar, but familiar that
doesn’t work very well. And so we, we, we gotta be unfamiliar to go be great. As I said before,
you gotta go be great. Um, love you guys. I do thank you for the ones that do support us. I, I really,
really, really appreciate it. Right. We need all the objective people we can get. We need all the honest
people we can get. We need all of the, uh, all of the OGs that we can get. Um, if there are separate
YouTube channel for etch, there will be very, very, very soon. Yes. Um, not, not quite yet,
but there will be soon. Love you guys. See you soon.
