WDD LIVE 074: WCUS 2024 Speed Build Challenge w/ Bricks, ACSS, & Frames

All right, everybody, it is about that time.

What’s up?

What’s up?

Hit the like button.

Can you hear me?

First of all, I’ve got a new, I had to replace my mixer over here.

I’m hoping that everything is good to go.

Drop a comment.

Let me know if audio sounds like normal.

We got Grant in the house, Sarah in the house, Steve in the house, Justin, Nick, Nick Kask.

Welcome, Nick.

Good morning, Derek.

I need an audio confirmation before we get too deep into this.

AT says, hey.

Hold on.

Okay.

Nobody’s giving an audio confirmation.

This is worrying me.

It’s worrying me.

Where are we at with our good to be back, yo?

Looking and sounding great.

Okay.

Audio is good.

Fantastic.

What is there like a fucking one minute delay today?

I don’t know.

That took forever.

That took forever.

Okay.

All right.

Like the stream.

If you haven’t liked it already, we already got two thumbs downs, which is fantastic.

We’re off to a great start with the thumbs down.

All right.

Good.

Now they all do.

There’s got it’s got it.

The delay has got to be more than normal today.

I don’t know what’s going on.

It’s normally not that.

Normally not that much.

Okay.

I am back from Portland.

I am back from WordCamp US.

You’ve probably heard there’s been a lot of drama in the WordPress space.

We can talk about that if we, if we want to, it’s up to you guys.

Our main agenda for the day is we’re going to do a speed build challenge, recreation of the speed build challenge from WordCamp 2024.

And, um, we’re going to do this two different ways.

Okay.

We’re going to, we’re going to, I’ll just talk about the process here.

Uh, and I’m going to bring up on the screen in just a second.

Justin, Justin says drama question mark.

Um, we’re going to do the speed build challenge.

We might do the speed build challenge twice.

I’m going to leave this up to you guys.

Okay.

I’m gonna leave this up to you guys.

We’ll talk about that in just a second.

Then we’ll do Q and a open Q and a, you can ask whatever you want.

Obviously we’re going to use hashtag Q or hashtag question.

When we get to that part, you can put them in now.

It’s fine.

You can put them in now too.

Uh, if you want to ask about the WordPress drama, I will comment on the WordPress drama.

If you don’t ask about the WordPress drama, I won’t comment on it.

It’s up to you guys.

Okay.

Some, some people want to hear about it.

Some people don’t want to hear about it.

Uh, it is what it is.

So we’ll let you guys steer the Q and a aspect of this.

I’m not coming onto the stream to talk specifically about that stuff. that’s going on, but if asked, I will, I will, uh, answer.

Andre says, can you explain?

Oh yeah.

Okay.

We’ll get there.

We’ll get there.

KG.

Did you beat Mark Zemansky at golf?

Uh, you know, to tell you the truth.

Um, yeah, I don’t think either of us won at golf.

I don’t think either of us won.

Uh, it was pretty messy.

It was pretty much, especially the back nine.

Now we weren’t in tip top shape.

Okay.

Like literally we had just got off planes.

Okay.

We, you imagine getting off a plane, racing to the hotel to drop your stuff off, racing to the golf course and then playing 18 holes, right?

You’ve traveled like half the day and then you’re going to go, you’re going to go play 18.

So yeah, I don’t, I don’t know that either.

Yeah.

Golf itself lost that day.

The trees in Portland absolutely lost the trees and they’re still recovering.

They’re still recovering.

Uh, I will say this, the first hole, we should have just quit after the first hole.

The first hole was fucking butter, parted up.

Okay.

Should have gone home right after that hole.

Uh, decided to continue playing and the front nine, not, not awful.

Back nine, you get tired.

You start to get tired.

Uh, absolutely atrocious.

So it is what it is.

Now, Mark did get a good video, a good video.

One of my beautiful shots.

And we’re going to put that up as soon as he said, he hasn’t sent it to me yet.

I mean, I would keep it under wraps too, if I was Mark, but he hasn’t said it.

If he does send it to me, I will publish it and we will make it seem that all of them went that way.

Um, you know, we control the narrative because we control the video.

So, uh, yeah, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll make it good.

Uh, Lother says, I can hear you.

Well, that’s, that’s good.

Um, that was, that was a question from 10 minutes ago.

Mark says murdered some trees, uh, for sure.

Oh, this is the other thing too.

Obviously we, we have plenty of excuses.

Uh, I mean, I had to buy a glove, uh, rented clubs.

I mean, the, the balls, I mean, were they good?

Were they good?

I don’t know.

I don’t think they were that good.

Um, you know, you just endless list of excuses.

We had fun though.

All that matters is we had a lot of fun.

We had, we had a lot of fun.

Uh, Derek, on the other hand, it’s a fucking, uh, apparently like a semi amateur pro Nike sponsored golfer or something.

Um, so he was just absolutely murking us, uh, the entire time, probably getting bored, right?

We were, we were in the trees.

He’s on the green every time.

It’s like, yeah.

So, but he was a good sport.

He played along with us.

Uh, it was fun.

It was fun.

All right.

Um, do you want to just get right into it is the question.

Let’s, let’s look at, I think in the speed build challenge.

Okay.

They give you five minutes to, they say they give you five minutes.

I don’t think they always give you five minutes, but they, you know, Jamie gives you five minutes to take a look at the site, to think about it for a minute.

I want to take that five minutes.

Obviously I’ve already seen the site.

So I just want to take that five minutes to kind of walk you through the process.

And we’re going to talk about the opportunity maybe to build this twice today and why we might want to build it twice today.

Uh, so I’m going to go ahead and share my screen.

And this is going to be our starting point right here.

We have a blank site.

We’ll go over the stack in just a second.

Uh, this is the site.

It’s buy, right, buy, right market.com.

If you want to pull that up on your computer, you can pull it up on your computer.

Um, I will say the site is, uh, you know, I don’t, I hate to talk bad about the buy, right web team.

Okay.

But the site’s an absolute travesty.

I mean, the, a lot of the decisions that were, these are not, these are not the decisions you should be, you should be making.

I mean, this hero section is one image.

It’s just a giant image.

It’s a, and I’m going to build it.

I’m going to build it the way that they have it here.

Okay.

We’re, we’re going to, we’re going to make this happen.

But, uh, if you go down, like, you know, uh, obviously look at this, look at this little cute guy, this little cute little orphan here.

Um, this is a button.

This whole thing is a link.

This is, this is just not the way you do things.

This is a link right here.

This is a link right here.

You wouldn’t even know there’s no hover style.

There’s no interaction style.

There’s you just, I, I tried to copy the text and it went somewhere.

I was like, Oh, that’s a link, I guess.

Um, yeah, just not fantastic.

It’s whatever, whatever.

I mean, that’s the typography is very tiny to me.

It’s just very small.

It’s all, look at this.

It’s all cramped.

It’s all, it’s all cramped together.

I’m not, not really liking that all that much.

Uh, but this is what we, this is what we have to build.

Now I am going to use my stack, my stack.

The reason I, you know, the reason for the stack is because the stack, the stack is highly efficient.

Now the stack includes frames.

Frames is based on common patterns and layouts.

And if you notice, there’s a lot of common patterns and layouts.

Okay.

So you’re going to see how frames helps with doing work like this.

This is what it was designed for.

Right now.

Some people may say, Oh, he’s cheating using frame.

Well, I didn’t build any of the frames for this project.

None of the, all the frames that I’m going to probably use.

Well, all of them, I haven’t built any frames since looking at this.

Um, all the frames I’m going to use have existed for a very long time.

Cause all these things are very common patterns.

Uh, the whole point of frames is like, why would you do work from scratch when it could just already be done for you?

Knowing that almost every project uses patterns like this.

Right?

So that’s the whole point of frames.

Now, if people want to see it built from scratch, we can do that next.

So we can build it.

We can do it with frames and see how it goes.

And then we can just start building some of it from scratch.

Now, some people might feel like, Oh, that’s a waste of time.

I don’t need to do it.

I just want to see you do it the first time.

We’ll take a little vote.

We’ll take a little vote.

I’ll leave that up to you guys.

So I’m going to use my stack to build it the first time.

And then we can just say, all right, we’ll build it from scratch the second.

Now I’ll still use automatic CSS when we build it from scratch the second time.

But I just won’t use frames.

Right?

We’ll skip the frames part.

Marcus says, Tobias has built some great frames lately.

He has.

He’s been on a roll.

He got a little vacation in, got a little recharged, and he came back on the attack.

Okay.

Any questions before we begin?

I will look at the stack here.

What is the stack, by the way?

So under themes, we have our bricks theme and builder.

Okay.

Under plugins, we’ll take a look here.

I’m using ACF Pro.

We’ll also talk about anything that’s been done up to this point because Jamie does give them an install that is prepped a little bit for this kind of thing.

Automatic CSS, obviously.

Frames, obviously.

Happy Files Pro, not really necessary for this project, but it’s kind of on all of the blueprints.

WS Form Pro, not really necessary for this speed build challenge, but it’s on all of my blueprints.

So there it is.

Really what we’re looking at is ACF, automatic CSS, frames, and bricks.

That’s pretty much going to do all of what we’re looking at here.

I did create a recipes custom post type where I just threw in the four recipes that are on the homepage.

There’s really no content in any of these.

There’s just a recipe description and a featured image.

I installed a font that is similar to this font.

I think this is a premium font.

I don’t know.

It’s a terrible font.

It’s not a good font.

But I think I chose one that’s similar.

So, you know, the font sizes and they’re not going to be exact because the font is different, obviously.

But, you know, we’ll try to dial some of this stuff in as much as we can.

I don’t know.

Any questions before we start?

I don’t think there’s…

I don’t see there’s any questions.

Okay.

Drop a like on the stream.

We’re going to get this underway here.

That’s the stack I’m most interested in seeing from you for sure.

Okay.

Good.

All right.

Well, let me go to pages, edit with bricks.

The only hard part of this that I hate is the flipping back and forth.

I really wish…

Like, I’ve got to…

I’m going to have to…

It’s going to waste a bunch of time flipping back and forth.

But it is what it is.

I would rather have it on this other screen over here.

But then you guys won’t be able to see it.

And you won’t be able to see which part of it I’m looking at.

I think they got dual screens in their thing.

But it is what it is.

It is what it is.

Okay.

Let’s see.

I would love to see setting up a pop-up for it and make it manage…

Make it manageable dynamically.

Oh, I don’t know what you mean by a pop-up.

Yeah.

I don’t know.

This doesn’t really…

No, it’s not outfit.

Hey, okay.

I’m just making sure there’s no questions before we start.

Header to body size text ratio needs a bit of a…

Yeah, it’s not great.

Max says tabs.

I don’t…

No, there’s no tabs.

There’s no tabs.

No tabs.

Why not use Arc’s split screen feature?

That’s a good question, Graham.

The reason is very simple.

It just makes things extremely cramped.

Extremely cramped.

I’m already, by the way, I’ve got this resolution blown up to make it way bigger for you guys, to make it easier to see what’s going on.

It’s already way too big for what I like.

So, yeah.

If we split screen it, it’s just…

I hate working in little tiny boxes.

It’s terrible.

It’s terrible.

All right.

I think I have a timer here.

Let me see if I can get going on our timer.

How do I start this?

Can you guys see the red timer on the screen?

Let me know first.

I’ve never done this timer thing before.

I just added it.

So, let me…

We got to wait for the delay.

I got to wait for everybody to answer on the 10-minute delay here.

Let me know if the timer is working.

I’m going to click go on it.

Okay, good.

I’m going to click go on it.

If it…

For some reason, the timer bugs out.

I’m not going to be paying attention to that.

So, I may or may not be able to pay attention to comments as they come in.

I don’t really know.

Okay?

So, we’re just…

Just let things roll.

And, you know, let’s get…

Okay, we’re starting at about 11.15 anyway.

Okay.

Bang.

Let’s go.

Let’s go.

Okay.

Okay.

We’re off to the races.

All right.

I’m going to go with a section and a section.

So, we’re just going to go two sections right off the bat.

These are not really framed sections.

I’m going to take this out and I’m going to put in an image.

This is going to be that really badass hero section that they’ve got going on.

All right.

So, let’s bring this in.

And we need this version of it.

Let’s go ahead and insert.

Excellente.

All right.

We can go pad.

Let’s just go…

Let’s go…

Actually, I don’t want to use any utility classes.

Let’s just go zero all around.

Okay.

Let’s go 100%.

Bang.

Oh, look at the hero coming together.

Yeah.

That’s kind of cheating.

Like when you do a hero like that, it’s kind of…

Oh, shit.

I lost my buy right.

All right.

Let’s bring it down here.

Okay.

Yeah.

We’re wasting tons of time on that nonsense.

Let’s go heading and text.

All right.

Text.

Heading.

Fantastic.

Freshly arrived.

Simply delicious.

Let’s just copy this.

Let’s go.

Freshly arrived.

Simply delicious.

All right.

Let’s pop that in.

Paste.

Let’s go with a P.

Awesome.

Fantastic.

All right.

We’ll get to alignment on that in just a second.

I’m going to come down here.

And this is actually…

Yeah.

I guess we can use a section.

I’m going to use a naked section here.

And I’m going to show you why in just a second.

Okay.

So let’s go down.

What I wanted to tackle is these.

And notice these are like grouped together.

Okay.

But there’s these CTA strips in between them.

So what I think I need is to just…

I don’t need this container at all.

We’re going to get rid of that.

I’m almost certain there is a feature card or feature section that does this exact layout.

Right?

So this is where we’re going to tap into frames.

And I’m going to go feature section.

And I’m just going to give a quick look-see.

I see one right here.

Sierra, but those overlap and they alternate.

I’m just going to keep…

I think there’s a more basic one.

Delta.

But I’m going to go…

I want card delta.

I just want the card.

That’s all I want.

I don’t want the alternating section and all of that.

So I’m going to stick that into the section there.

That’s fantastic.

I don’t think this section needs any padding either.

Okay.

Perfect.

So we’re going to do that.

I think that this feature card delta…

We’re going to go to the custom CSS.

I think…

Yeah.

Okay.

Let’s go six and six is going to give us the half.

Okay.

That’s perfect.

Now, I want these little strips here.

We’re just going to pop a block in here.

Put some text in the block.

We’ll BIM this up.

So I’m going to go with a block bang.

And then we will go with text.

This is not going to be a heading, even though it looks like a heading.

It’s going to be just text.

This is going to be our CTA divider.

We’re going to call that a CTA divider.

We’ll give it a class.

CTA divider.

I’m going to come down here.

We’re going to go CTA divider text.

It’s going to be the child.

Fantastic.

CTA divider.

Where are we at?

All right.

Let’s go padding.

Mmm.

Section XS.

Bang.

Let’s pop a gutter in the side.

Pop a gutter in the side there.

Let’s go with a background of primary.

We don’t have that color in yet, but that’s no problem.

We need to center.

We need to center the typography as well.

Probably come down to the mobile.

Go left and left again on mobile.

Okay.

Come on, Brixie.

Come on, Brix.

Okay.

Keep up, Brix.

All right.

We don’t need a gap in here.

That’s for sure.

Let’s go zero on our row gap.

Fantastic.

Let’s, we got a CTA divider.

We got text.

Let’s go typography color.

Let’s go white.

Probably want to go with a larger.

We can mimic the H3 size.

Okay.

What does that say, by the way?

Join the, see if I, ooh, is it going to take me somewhere if I click on this?

Okay.

No problem.

All right.

Let’s go back here.

Let’s pop this in.

Content.

Bang.

That definitely needs to be a paragraph and not a div.

I hate the spacing on this font.

Absolutely awful.

What did they, what did they do too?

Probably bolded it.

Yeah.

They bolded it.

So let’s go text.

Font weight.

Let’s keep the text on here.

Let’s keep the textiles on here.

Font weight 700.

Fantastic.

Okay.

All right.

So we got that.

Let’s go another one.

And then how many of these cards do we need?

Two, three, maybe.

And then pop that divider in there.

Pop this divider in there.

Okay.

We got our CTAs in.

Fantastic.

Let’s get some images going.

We need, let’s see, phone, ice cream, and salad.

Phone, ice cream, and salad.

There’s phone right there.

Let’s go down here.

Let’s go to ice cream.

There’s ice cream.

Okay.

And let’s go down to salad.

I don’t know why ice cream did not come in.

Come on, Bricks.

Keep up with me, Bricks.

Let’s go down to, was it ice cream that we missed?

Ice cream?

Ice cream?

There we go.

Ice cream is in.

Fantastic.

Let’s go down.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I’m going to go one on our aspect ratio there.

Fantastic.

Okay.

Let’s go back and let’s look at, what do we need?

Groceries delivered.

Buy right creamery and friends.

Groceries delivered.

Groceries delivered.

This is going to be buy right creamery and friends.

These really need to be H2s because there’s no other section heading here.

We actually don’t need these accents.

We can just go ahead and get rid of those.

Drop these off.

Fantastic.

It would be an absolute tragedy if we lost our work up to this point.

So I’m just going to go ahead and save.

We need to uppercase these.

We need to H2.

Oh, they’re already, there are.

Okay.

What?

Oh, this one’s still in H3, I bet.

I was like, why the fuck does it look like?

Okay.

There we go.

All right.

That should be good to go.

All right.

Fantastic.

Lead looks good.

Do we really need to waste time putting this content in?

I guess we will.

Oh, fuck.

Which one is that one?

The ice cream?

Okay.

Here we go.

Ice cream.

Pop it in.

I don’t know if you get extra points for putting content in or not.

Nourish.

Nourish.

Down here.

We didn’t do this heading.

Nourish plus.

What was it?

Nourish plus inspire.

Okay.

Absolutely awful copy, by the way.

Sorry, buy right.

But you’re not checking the boxes, buy right.

Okay.

Let’s go down here.

Put this in.

Paste.

Okay.

It’s probably going to get you a bunch of nonsense.

Code.

No.

No.

Okay.

We’re good there.

Fantastic.

Okay.

Where are we at with our buttons?

We need download app.

That’s going to be in the first one.

All right.

Download.

Oh, look at this.

Look at this.

This font has terrible default line height.

It looks like it has off balance line height.

Learn more.

Order now.

Okay.

Learn more.

Learn more.

And then order now.

Come on, bricks.

Get out of my way, dog.

Get out of my way.

Order now.

Fantastic.

Okay.

Let’s get out of this section here.

Let’s collapse that up.

Collapse that up.

Let’s go out.

We need.

We’re just going to move along.

We need this section right here.

Feature cards.

This is going to be a feature card section.

So let’s go to templates.

We need to go feature again.

Feature section.

It’s definitely going to be in the beginning somewhere.

Probably alpha.

Alpha.

Do we have any ones with images though?

Because these are not icons.

I think those are all going to be icons.

Okay.

Let’s just pop this in.

We got it.

We got to keep going.

Okay.

No.

For some reason.

No.

No heading tech.

No intro really at all.

So let’s get those.

Let’s get.

Wait a minute.

Hold on.

No, no, no.

This is the.

All right.

Let’s go back.

This is this.

Okay.

Hold on.

Let’s go out of here.

That’s what we need for that.

All right.

Let’s go to feature.

That might have been some dyslexia right there.

I was like, ah.

Okay.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Feature section alpha.

I put Charlie instead of alpha.

Okay.

There we go.

Still don’t need the intro.

Perfect.

All right.

This is going to come up here.

And let’s see.

What else do we need?

We need to center these.

If I remember in my mind.

Center.

Probably go typography center.

But I like to bring all that stuff back to the left when we go to mobile.

So I just kind of automatically do that every single time.

All right.

That’s fantastic there.

We need these.

This to be a background.

Feature section alpha.

Background.

Not a color.

Not a color.

Let’s go back.

Not a color.

Select image.

There we go.

This pattern.

Fantastic.

These need to be white.

I think they’re ultra light.

Let’s go white like that.

Fantastic.

Where are we?

Where are we?

Okay.

We need those images in.

And I’m going to get a little bit of content in.

The groceries delivered.

Okay.

Groceries delivered.

Pop this in here.

Bang.

Get rid of the extra spacing.

This icon has got to go.

We’re just going to put an image underneath it.

So let’s go image.

Select.

This one.

I’m just going to get.

Yeah.

Okay.

Orange.

Good.

We need the orange one.

Okay.

Get rid of the icon.

Take the wrapper.

We need to shrink this down.

We could do it.

That doesn’t have a BIM class on it.

And I don’t have time right now.

We’re going to go layout.

Let’s just do it on the wrapper.

100.

100.

Where are we at?

100.

Yeah.

Looks good.

Okay.

Icon.

Image.

Image.

Let’s just take this.

Paste.

Oh, fuck.

Allow.

Yes.

Allow pasting, please.

Please.

Thank you.

Okay.

Pasted one too many there.

It’s all right.

We can get rid of it.

Good.

Bang.

We don’t need this.

We don’t need this.

We don’t need this.

Great.

Fantastic.

Okay.

Let’s put these in.

I don’t know what order they go in and I don’t really care.

Pink.

Blue.

Okay.

What’s the next one?

Look at bricks.

Look at bricks on the struggle bus.

Keep up with me, bricks.

Green.

Which one am I missing?

Pink?

No.

I already did pink.

Fuck.

All right.

Pink.

Green.

Green.

I already did green.

I already did green.

Okay.

Which one are we missing?

Which one are we?

We got orange, green, pink, blue.

I don’t.

Here we go.

The blue one.

There we go.

Okay.

Groceries delivered.

That’s fantastic.

That’s fantastic.

Do we need an intro down here?

We do.

Feast the destination for all things food.

All right.

We need this to say feast.

We need this to say your destination for all things food.

We apparently don’t need that.

We need to make this narrower.

We need to make this narrower.

Narrower.

It’s not using the actual content width of the website.

So let’s go down.

I don’t know.

800.

Too small.

1000.

Better.

Okay.

I think there’s less of a gap too.

Okay.

Grid gap.

That’s fine.

I think our gap looks good actually.

What we need to do is delete these instances and we’re going to take feature card Charlie.

We’re going to loop it.

Loop, loop, loop.

This is going to be our recipes.

Post type.

Post type recipes.

Okay.

Post per page.

Offset.

What?

Bricks, what are you doing, dog?

What are you doing?

You can’t handle a basic loop.

Come on now.

Okay.

There we go.

We’re back.

We’re back in action.

A little bit of refresh.

If Bricks loses its mind, you just need a little bit of a refresh.

Okay.

Featured image.

Pop that in.

Grab this.

This is going to be our what?

Post title.

We’re going to make this our description.

Description.

Recipe description.

Okay.

Post title is looking a little large.

All this shit needs to be way smaller.

Okay.

Take this.

Typography.

S.

Take this.

Heading.

Typography.

Four.

Okay.

Something like that.

All right.

Let’s go to the front.

Let’s just.

No, that’s not the front.

Let’s go to the front.

Okay.

We’re checking.

We’re checking.

We’re checking.

Okay.

So.

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Automatic CSS.

We got to get rid of all these border radiuses.

Border.

Border.

Zero.

Okay.

Everything should be square.

Fantastic.

Okay.

Save.

We need our color.

Shh.

I didn’t get our color to start with.

Let’s get it.

Let’s get it quick.

Oh, where’s my color picker?

Where is it?

Okay.

Wasting too much time.

Wasting too much time.

Grab it.

Let’s go.

Color palette.

Primary.

Paste.

Save.

Okay.

Fantastic.

What are we going to do with the buttons?

There’s two ways to do buttons in automatic CSS.

You can go literal or you can go use case.

In this one, I’m going to go use case because if you look at the buttons, they’re all black outline buttons.

But that’s like the primary button style, right?

Even though it’s not using the primary color, look at it.

It’s the primary button style.

So I think what I’m going to do, I’m just going to hijack because these are all using button primary.

I’m going to hijack this.

We’re going to go transparent.

Text color.

We’re going to go black.

Border color.

We’re going to go black.

Focus color.

I don’t care right now.

Background on hover.

What is black?

Text color.

White.

Oh, no, no, no.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Black.

Okay.

Hover.

White.

Border color.

Probably needs to stay black.

What does it do?

What does it do?

Hover.

Yeah, it should just stay black.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Solid save.

Okay.

Let’s regen.

Good job.

Okay.

Perfect.

All right.

Now we have all primary buttons.

Okay.

All of our buttons are.

Oh, we don’t have buttons in our cards.

And I’m also seeing.

No, that looks good.

Okay.

That looks good.

We just need a button.

Pop.

Oh, we’re going wrong places.

Okay.

Button.

Good.

Button primary.

Nice.

Okay.

Let’s take that.

Let’s see.

What is it supposed to say?

Order online.

Do they all say something different?

Order catering.

Okay.

Let’s do order online.

Perfect.

Let’s take that button.

Paste.

Paste.

Paste.

Okay.

Order catering.

Visit the market.

See the menu.

Order catering.

See the market.

Order.

What did the other one say?

See the menu.

Okay.

Oh, I did.

I did see the market.

Okay.

Visit the market.

Dyslexia is a bitch.

Okay.

We need this to be 100% wide.

Let’s go layouts with 100%.

I want to try to get to.

There we go.

There.

There we go.

Okay.

Feast.

What do we need on our.

It’s like all of our H2s.

Are all of our H2s like uppercase?

I don’t usually like doing this, but like whatever.

Typography.

Heading.

H2.

Text transform.

Uppercase.

Save.

Okay.

So those will all be uppercase now.

All right.

Let’s go.

We need to go header.

Let’s actually.

Actually here.

We will.

We will go utility.

Center all.

I’m actually do center left M.

Okay.

So that’s going to bring that back to the left on mobile.

Okay.

Good there.

I think we need to cap this with L.

Looks good.

Perfect.

Okay.

Fantastic.

Let’s get that.

Let’s get out of here.

We need to tackle a header real quick.

How much time we got?

13 minutes left.

Man, this goes quick.

It goes absolutely too fast.

Okay.

Header.

Select.

Header, header, header, header, header.

Publish.

Okay.

Edit with bricks.

Template settings.

Template.

No, no, no, no.

Conditions.

Here we go.

Add condition.

Entire website.

Okay.

Save.

Open.

Header.

We’re going to need that.

What does it look like?

What does it look like?

Okay.

Full width.

All we’re looking for is a centered nav.

That’s all we really care about, I think.

Okay.

Header.

So like this one, Bravo, maybe.

Maybe Bravo.

I don’t think we need the top bars, the problem.

Okay.

Let’s pop this logo in.

Where are we?

Buy, right.

Buy, right.

Here we go.

Buy, right.

Logo.

Fantastic.

We need this to be white.

Header, Bravo.

Background.

White.

White, white, white, white, white.

Okay.

Get there.

Come on.

Come on.

Get there.

Okay.

We don’t need.

How are we going to center this button?

Or how are we going to center the header, the text, without the button?

The button offset is centering the header for us.

Okay.

Let’s drop this down.

I think it’s a little big.

Let’s go.

No.

No.

Bigger.

Right there.

Okay.

Good.

Let’s get the inner.

100%.

100%.

Good.

Needs to go all the way to the edge.

Okay.

Let’s look at this.

There we are.

Okay.

Got to get that centered.

And you’re not going to do.

You could do auto margin, but it’s not going to be a true center.

Because the space that the logo is taking up is going to fucking push it off to the right.

You see that garbage?

That’s absolute garbage.

So we’re not.

We can’t do that.

Okay.

Okay.

Don’t kill me.

Don’t kill me.

We’re doing a fucking space block.

Watch this shit.

Watch this shit.

Watch this.

I’m actually going to.

This is actually going to make it perfectly centered.

This is going to make it perfectly centered.

Okay.

So we’re going to go here on our section, our header.

Okay.

Let’s go down here.

We’re going to make a logo.

Logo width.

Logo width.

What was it?

140 pixels.

Logo width.

Okay.

Good.

We’re going to come in here and we’re going to go logo width.

And if both of them are the exact same spacer.

Okay.

If both of these are the exact same, where’s my width?

Logo width.

The menu will always be perfectly centered.

And then we just decide where we don’t want that.

Okay.

Now here, we’re just going to say, we’re just going to delete it.

Okay.

Display.

This I hate, dude.

Like, all right.

Let me prove my point.

I don’t know where the fucking display thing is.

It’s easier and faster to write CSS.

Okay.

Save.

Let’s go back.

Perfect.

Okay.

Bang.

Perfectly centered.

Okay.

This area up here is bothering me on both sites.

This is a terrible, what they’ve done here.

Absolute travesty.

I don’t, I don’t even know.

Like, I mean, we can, we can.

Take Bravo top layout position absolute.

This is like the jankiest way to do this.

I think.

Position to the right zero.

Cause, but now you’re, see, now it’s going to be like it needs to be, but we’re going to need to know where, where does that, that needs to disappear right there.

So we’re going to have to get rid of that.

We’ll just take the top part layouts.

Display, display, dude.

Bricks hides the, there it is.

It’s in, it’s in the wrong tab.

Okay.

All right.

That looks good there.

Let’s go back.

All right.

So we’re only going to have, at least for this speed challenge, we’re only going to have that data on desktop.

Let’s get rid of the phone link.

We don’t need that.

We don’t need that.

We don’t need that.

Okay.

Where icon.

We don’t need icons.

We don’t need this icon either.

We actually don’t need a phone link altogether.

I’m just going to duplicate the address link.

We’re going to come in here.

We’ll say locations, contact us.

Okay.

Contact us.

We’re not going to, I’m not even going to bother with the links.

Okay.

Locations contact us.

I don’t even know if we’ll be able to get any design details going on that area up there, but it is what it is.

Okay.

We need, let’s go back to buy, right?

Okay.

First of all, we’re, we’re in a different order here.

So let’s go out of there back in.

We just need this section.

This is our hero to go first.

Okay.

Perfect.

Bing, bang, boom.

All right.

That CTA right there.

I’m going to steal from here.

Okay.

Grab that.

We’re actually going to go back to the header.

To me that, that needs to be like in your header.

It probably shows up.

I don’t know if it shows up on every single page.

Let’s get back to the front.

Let’s get back to the front.

Okay.

I didn’t, I did not click on profile.

All right.

Refresh.

So join the buy, write wine club.

What is this supposed to say?

All right.

Pre-order this.

Is that on every fucking page?

We’re just going to have to go check real quick.

Okay.

It’s not.

I fucked it up.

Let’s go back out here.

We just need it on the homepage, I guess.

So let’s edit with bricks.

Get rid of all these instances.

Pop that in.

Drag it to the top.

Save.

Okay.

Now we can go back to the front end.

Let’s see what we got going.

All right.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Pretty good.

Pretty good.

Footer.

Footer.

Let’s try it.

How much time we got?

Seven minutes.

Okay.

Bricks.

Templates.

Add new.

If you didn’t have to do this in a magic area, it’d probably be a little faster.

Publish.

Edit with bricks.

Going to have to assign template settings, conditions, add condition, entire website.

Save.

Get out of there.

Footer.

Footer.

Footer.

Footer.

Footer.

Footer.

Footer.

Footer.

What does it look like?

Three.

Three.

We need three.

And then we don’t have this exact footer.

We have a starting point for it, I’m sure.

Like this.

Oh, oh, this one’s super fucking close right here.

This one’s got a lot of shit going on that we don’t need.

But it’s fairly close.

We don’t need this entire top row.

Okay.

We’re going to have to look at how this is structured here.

A far footer hotel grid.

We got a five column grid.

I’m not liking that at all.

Oh, this is using a fucking span.

See?

This is not going to be quick.

This is not going to be quick.

Four to end.

Get rid of the span.

Maybe don’t get rid of the span.

Four column five, six, seven.

If we go to seven, maybe I can get another.

Actually, no.

I only need one more.

I only need one more.

Six.

And then we’ll just put a block in.

And get that block to the beginning.

Okay.

Future grid hotel.

Six.

Yeah.

Because it’s a complex grid, I’m actually going to go with…

There’s one other I saw.

That would be doable.

I think it’s just not going to be doable in six minutes.

We’re going to have to start simpler.

Like maybe alpha.

Let’s go alpha.

Okay.

All right.

The timer thing…

Like you’re not always doing things, you know, exactly how you need to be doing them because of the time constraint.

Grid, grid, grid gap.

Okay.

Good.

We don’t need this.

We don’t need this.

We do need this logo.

What’s going on with this?

Okay.

Grid two, three.

And we need a third column.

Okay.

This will be a little bit easier to deal with, I think.

So let’s get a block in here.

Let’s go…

Custom grid.

We just need like this little logo.

What is that?

Like 80 pixels?

Okay.

And then we need like a grid.

No.

Let’s just do…

Let’s just…

Let’s just go old school.

Zero, one FR.

And then zero, one FR.

This is going to be a two FR.

Okay.

All right.

That’s looking a little bit better.

That’s looking a little bit better.

Let’s get this down to…

They’re not using a lot of spacing.

I just…

Let’s cramp all this stuff up, even though it looks awful.

Let’s go with a gap of zero.

We could probably just let line height rule the day here because this is not a lot of spacing whatsoever.

That goes 0.25M, maybe.

Something like that.

Okay.

Let’s take this.

Let’s go line height.

Line height.

Line height.

1.4.

Okay.

No.

That would not be the way to do it.

That would not be a good way to do it.

Okay.

Let’s take the list.

Let’s use a gap, but just a little gap.

A little bit of a gap.

0.5M.

Okay.

Is that cramped enough for our liking?

We can go 0.5M there too.

These need to be smaller.

They do need to be H2s, but they need to look like H4s.

These probably need to be small.

Okay.

Yeah.

All that shit’s small.

About us.

Contact.

Shop us.

About us.

Contact.

Shop.

Okay.

What else?

What else?

Certified.

Certified B.

Do we have that image?

Certified.

Certified.

Certified B.

There it is.

There it is.

Okay.

This is a bunch of nonsense over here.

We’d need like a block for that.

I don’t even know if it’s worth doing.

Put this block in.

What will we have?

Like text.

Not a heading.

It’s not a real heading.

Text.

Text.

Form.

Right?

Let’s go text.

Text.

And then a form.

Okay.

Like this.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thanks.

Thanks, Briggs.

We don’t need all that jazz.

All right.

What’s that say?

What’s that say?

What’s that say?

Newsletter sign up.

Newsletter sign up.

How about we do H4?

Bang.

It’ll automatically look like an H4.

Let’s go typography.

What are our H?

See, I don’t know.

All H4s don’t need to look like that.

This is not the route to go.

Let’s go for.

I’m just going to do this.

You just do this at the ID level at this point.

It’s in the fucking footer.

Who cares?

Right?

Who cares?

It’s in the footer.

Who cares?

Okay.

Let’s go down here.

Be the first to know.

Be the first to know.

Be the first.

Oh.

Know what’s new in good food?

Okay.

Fantastic.

Why did the message field not disappear?

I asked for the message field to not be there.

Okay.

I don’t know that we can get an inline form in the last two minutes and 15 seconds.

Let’s see.

Let’s go to the front end.

Dude, I hate that they changed this.

Doesn’t go to the front end anymore.

Okay.

Buy right.

Do we miss anything?

What else?

All right.

Let’s go look at some details.

Do we miss any little details?

I got to go back to the homepage first.

Okay.

Something delicious.

Okay.

Okay.

I think we’re okay.

Okay.

All that stuff’s correct, right?

What about these cards?

I mean, maybe you might nitpick and be like, well, you know, those buttons are full width in those cards.

Maybe they don’t need to be.

No.

We don’t want to do that on the class.

Oh.

These need a fucking.

Okay.

We got to cheat.

We got to cheat.

We got to cheat.

Okay.

Root button primary.

Okay.

Width is, you know, max content.

I don’t even know if this is going to be.

This is why I hate looking at it scrunched.

Is that a, is that a responsive grid?

Hold on.

I’d rather look at the grid here.

Let’s make sure.

Let’s just look at this on mobile.

Inspect, please.

Inspect.

Okay.

All right.

Here we are.

Okay.

Let’s just take a look.

We’re good.

We’re good up to this point.

We’re good up to this point.

Those do stack.

Those do.

Okay.

Our footer does not.

But let’s go down.

What are these cards going to do?

What are these cards going to do?

Okay.

Oh, you lose padding there.

Why are we losing padding there?

All right.

Let’s go.

We need to inspect real quick.

Can’t end on that note.

Can’t end on that note.

What’s going on with these cards?

Okay.

Grab this.

Grab this.

Yeah.

That doesn’t make any sense.

Okay.

Get rid of all that.

All right.

We should be good there.

All right.

Refresh.

Bang.

All right.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Looking good.

Okay.

Footer looks good on super mobile.

Just not quite right there.

That’s not a good.

It’s not a good look.

These are mostly good.

Okay.

We’re just checking some details because I only have two sec.

Okay.

I’m out of time.

I’m out of time.

All right.

Let’s stop.

Let’s stop.

We’re stopped.

Okay.

Hmm.

All right.

Let’s go with comments.

Comments.

Let’s just roll them in.

I can’t do anything else.

We’re out of time.

I did.

I should have done a little bit of the nav.

We could have done a little styling on the nav.

I think.

We could have probably fit that in there if we wanted to.

Probably should have done that.

Probably should have done that.

I think overall we’re all right though.

The background on these cards right here is clearly missing.

Feature card delta.

These are simple one-click fixes.

That should fix all those.

There you go.

Now they’re all fixed.

That’s the point of like classes and such.

You get it?

Like you don’t have to go.

You don’t have to go one by one.

Like see these.

See the spacing and stuff here.

These are all fixed.

You can go back and fix this stuff globally at any time.

Like this is the power of automatic CSS.

Contextual spacing.

This container gap.

I just see.

See I can like control these.

And that’s global across the board.

Like my grid gaps can all go smaller.

See what my grids do?

Like I just, you know, whatever you want to do with all your grids.

So a lot of stuff, you know, you’re doing a lot of front-loaded work.

And then a lot of this stuff is actually tweakable like globally at any time.

So that’s nice.

You know, that’s nice.

We would obviously want to link these up.

But I’m trying to get broad coverage.

It’s like, you know, if you spend too long on one section, you’re not going to have broad coverage of the work you’re trying to get done.

You know?

Now, we do need to talk about like, let’s talk about some of the atrocities of this website.

Honestly, like why you shouldn’t do things certain ways.

Let me look at some comments.

Let me look at some comments.

Let’s see.

Okay.

I’m working on a client site while I’m listening.

I just caught myself trying to speed build.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Let’s see.

Starting to defuse the bombers.

Okay.

Oh, yeah.

Key for Sutherland.

Okay.

Good.

Let’s see.

Didn’t see Kevin in real life.

So I keep believing he’s AI generated.

Carlo, were you at?

Were you at WordCamp, Carlo?

Did we miss each other?

Did we miss each other?

Okay.

I did meet D123.

Finally.

Finally got to meet D123.

D123.

The man’s been around the community forever.

I finally got to meet him.

He’s a good guy.

He’s a good guy.

Yeah.

I know, Duhunzi.

It actually only defaults to the entire website.

I mean, I just do it.

First of all, I do it out of habit.

Because sometimes I do have footers, for example.

I almost always have a real footer and then a landing page footer.

And the landing page footer is the minimal footer with just the policies and stuff like that.

None of the other links.

It’s just a habit of like when you, because if you don’t assign it and then you end up with two footers, now what?

Like you got to remember to go back and assign all.

It’s just, I’m there.

You’re already there.

Why?

Just assign it and you’re good to go.

So, yeah.

All right.

All right.

I’m going, I’m just going back up.

Just going through some comments.

The amount of text in the cards determines the position of the button.

So, so this is a, let’s look at that for a second.

Cause I, you know, let’s just, let’s just do this.

Like just duplicate and that should be enough.

Right?

So let’s talk about how to fix this.

Cause a lot of people have issues with this.

Right?

Usually it’s a, a really quick fix where see feature.

Well, there’s actually should be two ways to fix it.

Now, because I was going fast, I just used my button primary class.

It really should have a feature card alpha class like this.

Like feature card alpha button.

And this is actually a good lesson in like why you would have a utility class mixed with a custom class.

Right?

So what is this called again?

We’ll just, we’ll just do this now.

So FR feature card alpha and then button.

FR feature card alpha button.

Come on bricks.

Come on bricks.

There’s no, they not have validation on like don’t allow slashes on accident and class names.

Okay.

There we go.

All right.

So now you take feature card alpha like this and you can, I don’t know why it’s not autoing unless bricks is just not previewing it.

You should, you sometimes depending on the flex direction, you can align self right to the, okay.

So that’s going in the wrong direction.

Let’s go margin top auto.

Let’s just, that’s an odd one.

That’s an odd one.

Save.

Now, now you’re going to have to debug.

Like what, what exactly is going on here?

Span P.

It doesn’t look like it’s getting the, just looks like it’s not getting it.

Margin top is set to zero.

Well, well bricks.

It’s not actually.

All right.

Let’s go refresh.

Why is bricks insisting at zero when it’s actually auto layout?

There’s no margin set on the ID level.

Bricks is outputting zero when I’m asking it to output auto.

That’s always, that’s always fun.

That’s always fun.

Oh, it says auto right there, doesn’t it?

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

I’ll have to have a think about that.

I have to have a think about that.

What I don’t like when people do is they, they do a space between type stuff.

I’m not a fan of that.

I don’t like big, you’ll get big gaps in between the, the content rather than the button actually being aligned to the bottom.

Um, if anybody in the comment knows, I don’t know why.

Unless my brain short circuiting.

Yeah.

It could be the span.

Ah, it could be.

Hold on.

Let’s do.

Let’s give it a link.

Let’s give it a link.

Custom URL.

Bang.

Um.

You almost.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Notice how.

Look at this.

Look at this is.

Okay.

HTML tag span.

Um.

I like how, I like how things change up here.

When I change things down here.

Okay.

Style layout.

Uh.

Da, da, da, da, da.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

No.

It’s not, it’s not, it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna matter.

It could be something else overriding it.

So I do have an A now.

Uh.

And now.

Which one of these did I add custom CSS to?

Oh, I did it on the, I did it on the card.

That could be, that could be, uh, one of the issues.

Remember I was cheating and I did this?

That’s just gonna, that’s just gonna control the width of that.

So that’ll go back to full width.

Okay.

Oh, it’s a, is there a.

Oh, I didn’t even notice there’s a body wrapper.

There is a body wrapper.

Actually, the body wrapper can just flex grow.

Um, there we go.

And now the alpha button can have its auto.

There you go.

There’s a body wrapper.

Beep.

Okay.

And.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Flex grow one.

These didn’t get the class of feature card alpha button.

So you have to, like a chump, you gotta add these one at a time.

Feature card alpha button.

And then easiest way is just to search for the underscore.

And then bring them in.

If I had access to the HTML, this would be way easier.

Okay.

Now let’s go back.

Now, now you get, see, this is the gap you should have.

If you go with space between, you end up with other weird gaps in, in the middle, uh, between kind of everything, right?

Unless you add extra groups and such.

Yeah.

It’s, um, yeah.

This is the better way to do it.

You just essentially send the button to the bottom.

And then it’s actually what I, what I tell clients is you have to sculpt the amount of content.

You’re like, cause Bev, legit Bev will come in and, and she’ll do this.

She won’t actually, uh, it’s, um, short.

Okay.

She won’t actually, uh, use that, but she’ll use this amount of text.

Look, she’ll, she’ll do shit like this.

And I’m like, Bev, you know, the, the first description can’t be little.

And the next one, you just write like three times as much.

Like when you’re going to do card layouts like this, you’re like brevity is your friend.

Um, and you got to word things so that everything is kind of around the same length.

Like that’s really the manipulation.

Um, you know, that’s, that’s like this.

Take out the wordiness and then you see like, okay, does that help?

Right now that’s decent.

Now that’s decent.

If you have way too much content in one card, obviously you’re going to break the layout.

Like these layouts are content length sensitive.

So the best thing to do is just manipulate the content length, uh, by choosing to write more or less.

So you can make certain things a little bit more wordy.

You can make other things a little bit, you know, less wordy.

Uh, like this here too, you have to avoid, you’ve got to avoid like in your blog post titles or your recipe titles going crazy with like, sometimes you have a really long title.

A lot of other times you have short titles.

Well, when you loop those into cards, you’re going to have another challenge that you’re presented with.

Um, now like bricks allows you to, if I come down here, um, it allows you to control like character counts and things like that.

But then ultimately you’re cutting off some of the heading.

Uh, there’s everything is a concession.

Everything is like pros, cons, you know, uh, intro alpha can be tightened up here.

Things like this little details.

And that’ll do that in all those intros.

But okay.

We were going to talk about like some of the travesties of this, of this site.

Obviously let’s start here.

You never use a giant hero image with important text in it.

Okay.

This, this text cannot be read by screen readers.

Buy, write, market, Polk street is open.

That is all irrelevant content to search engines.

It’s all irrelevant to screen reader users.

Um, it’s, it’s just bad.

This is not, this is like super amateur.

This is how a super amateur would do this hero.

Now I’ll tell you exactly why it was done this way.

The designer designed this with the, with the boxes.

See the outline kind of design thing.

Um, the text clipping inside of the, of the big open text.

This would probably take a long time to work everything out with CSS.

Can this all be done with CSS?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It’s going to take a while.

It’s going to take a while.

So they, the developers made a decision.

They were like, well, I mean, we could, we could spend an hour or whatever it’s going to take doing this all with CSS or, or hear me out.

We could just export the image from Figma or XD or wherever it came from or Photoshop.

Um, and, uh, slap that in.

And that’s what they did.

That’s what they chose to do.

Uh, they actually did it as a background image, which is even more horrific because if you look at theirs, um, it cuts off the, the design sometimes it depends on the screen size you’re on.

Uh, but when you’re on smaller screens, like some of these, uh, outlines get cut off.

Um, last time I checked anyway, just never do this.

Never do, never do a giant hero out of an image and, and certainly not text on the image.

And think about some of this, like if this blue color, which I think is a brand color, it’s like their secondary brand color.

They don’t use it very often.

Uh, let’s go to, like, I don’t think there’s any other you, Oh, there is in this.

Now that’s even a different blue.

That’s teal.

They’ve actually got a different blue going on.

This is how amateur this shit is.

Look at that.

Look at that blue.

And the sign up button is a different blue from this blue, which is like a teal.

And then, and then you come up here and then this is back to like some bright blue.

They got three different blues going on and they don’t use blue anywhere else.

What, why would you use, what is the purpose?

Okay.

Here’s another blue in this icon, which seems to match this blue right here, but you rarely use blue.

So why do you need three of them?

Why do you three blues?

You barely use blue.

Well, why do you need three of them?

This kind of stuff just, I, I go back to the designer and I’m like, I’m like, what are you doing?

What, what are you doing?

Like we need to have a talk.

We got to have a, this is an intervention.

I could quit with the blues.

Okay.

Chill out.

Um, they got this, this primary pinky color.

I don’t even know, plum.

What would you call this?

I don’t even know.

Um, they, they don’t use that all that much.

This is actually, I don’t know. if you could tell on the stream, this is like a light gray.

Okay.

There’s another, this is odd decisions.

They don’t make any sense.

Light gray.

Come down here.

Let me bring it down here.

Tan.

It’s like a tan down here.

Why?

What?

What’s the purpose?

What are you doing?

This could be light gray, just like the light gray up there or make them both tan.

If you like tan, why are you doing light gray and then tan?

Well, that doesn’t make any sense.

There’s no design reason for that.

No designers.

Well, I mean, obviously it needed to be tan down there.

Not up there.

There’s no explanation for this stuff.

These are the things you have to start being able to see.

Right.

And look at like, oh man, this is amateur hour stuff right here.

Right.

Um, purple color equals nappy fresh maroon.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh, the designer had the blues magenta.

Okay.

They only use it three times.

So they just raw dog the color picker near the blue quadrant.

That’s, I think that’s right.

I think you’re right.

Um, or this was like here, you know what?

Maybe what happened here?

What if this is like a form widget and it’s like a third party form widget thing and they don’t really have control over it.

Like, or, um, they forgot to customize it or something.

That’s, that could be, I don’t know.

That could be.

Um, all right.

What else are they doing wrong?

Well, the fact that this is a link, this is a link, this is a link.

Those, those are links.

You don’t even know their links.

They don’t look like their links.

That’s not a linky type position.

These are like banners, right?

Your banner can’t be a link when it’s not clear the banner’s a link.

We got no hover style.

What’s it like?

Even if you hover over this, yeah, the browser turns to a hand.

That’s all you get.

You get the pointer.

That’s all you get.

Uh, you get no hover styles.

Um, just atrocious decisions, atrocious decisions.

Um, we need to look at this probably on, we won’t even talk about this, this thing up here.

Just, that’s, that’s not good either.

Um, spacing is off here for no reason.

Um, yeah, a lot of crampage.

Okay, let’s, let’s take a look at mobile and just see what they’ve, what they’ve done here.

Hmm.

Okay.

They put the menu on the left.

That’s interesting choice.

Interesting choice there.

Look at their, this is what happens, guys.

This is what happens.

Your little, your hero.

You thought it was a great idea to use a background image there.

I mean, look at this.

Look at this.

I mean, what are we, what are we doing here?

What are we doing here?

Okay.

Look at this.

I hate this.

Oh my gosh.

It is just the biggest pet peeve of my life.

You saw me.

Like when I centered stuff, what did I immediately do?

Go to a lower break point, left align it.

Right?

Look at this.

Centered.

Immediately goes to the left.

Centered here.

Why are we centering things here and then going left and then center back to the center?

Back to the left.

Back to the center.

Back to the left.

Back to the center.

Back to the center.

Back to the left.

Hey, we’re back to the left.

No rhyme or reason.

No rhyme or reason for what, why, and what?

We got huge gutters here now.

Oh, this is just, man.

Oh, it’s not looking too hot either.

Right?

Not looking too, they had, how long did they have for this stuff?

How long?

Look at this.

Centered left.

Left.

Look, centered.

Left.

I mean, this is left aligned, but it’s visually centered for no reason because they decided to keep this here.

I don’t know, man.

These just, it’s just, this is the production site.

I didn’t even have the, mine’s 30 minutes.

This is the production site that we’re looking at here.

All right.

We probably need to go into a Q&A.

Bottom boxes off to the left also.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

What’s the website built on?

Check the dom.

Says Tyree.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Anybody recognize?

Anybody recognize it?

I don’t know.

I don’t even know if it’s a WordPress site.

Honestly.

I assume he would have got, oh, what’s FL?

What’s this FL prefix?

What is that for?

Anybody know?

Digital algorithms. 100 whiplashes for the designer every day for a whole year with no remorse.

Beaver.

Mark says Beaver.

Oh, OGC Digital says Astra.

Well, which one is it?

I don’t know Beaver.

I don’t, I don’t, I don’t spend much time.

Okay.

Sinan says Flower Builder.

Oh, he’s just joking because of the FL.

Okay.

They’re saying Beaver.

Beaver, Beaver it is, I guess.

Anything else we want to take a look at here?

I mean, we didn’t.

That doesn’t pass contrast checks for sure right there.

Dude, everything is so random.

Look at this.

This is the same split section kind of thing.

Look at the size of this heading and it’s not capitalized versus the, versus the ones on this.

Look at this.

Look at this.

Giant and all caps.

And then you come to the markets page.

Not all caps, not giant.

Oh, gosh.

I can’t, I can’t take it.

It’s like, this is what happens, by the way, when you don’t think globally, when you don’t think scalability maintain it, when you just do a bunch of random stuff.

Which, you know, by the way, Beaver encourages you to do.

Those are markets.

That’s not going to be, let’s look at their ice cream menu.

They at least have good ice cream.

Here’s the tan again.

Look at the, the tan is back.

It’s a different, it’s a different version of tan.

It’s a darker tan.

And our primary color is pink now.

It’s hot pink, guys.

Got a hot pink primary color now.

Oh, look at this.

I mean, we’re, what are we doing?

What are we doing?

Why are we, why are we randomly, look at the blue as the hover, but it doesn’t actually hover.

That’s, that contrast is gone on hover.

Absolutely gone on hover.

I mean, this is a travesty of a website.

You got the, you can’t even see the hover color only shows up when you leave the item.

Look, it’s not hover, no hover color.

Leave the item.

Oh, you just, for a split second, you see the hover color, which is the blue.

But, but when I’m on the ice cream page, let’s go, let’s go back to the ice cream page, ice cream menu.

Suddenly we’ve, we don’t care about the maroon anymore.

We’re, we’re hot pink now.

We’re hot pink and tan.

Okay.

Now, what else?

What, what other goodies can we find?

How about baked goods?

Well, where do we go?

Oh, baked goods were still pink.

Okay.

It’s like they rebranded and forgot about their homepage.

Okay.

Ice cream cakes.

All right.

Collaborations.

What about catering?

Oh, there’s the blues again.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Oh, oh.

Okay.

Oh.

Uh-huh.

What, where did this little dotty, this underlined dotty heading come from?

It hasn’t been used on the homepage anywhere, but now it’s showing up here.

Oh, look at this.

Guys, we rebranded again for catering.

Catering has rebranded.

We got, this is what designers, they love this stuff.

They, some designers, they get a little bug up their ass.

They’re like, every section of the website should have its own branding.

Like, okay.

It shouldn’t.

It shouldn’t, by the way.

You’re not that important.

You’re not that important.

Okay.

You can just stick, you can just stick with one color scheme.

You don’t have to get this cute.

All right.

I think we’re done.

We’ll move into the Q&A phase of our stream.

Now, if some of those sections, you want to see them built manually, we won’t do the whole thing manually.

But if you want to see some of them built manually, we can build some of them manually.

Yeah, the logo also needs, needs a lot of help.

All right.

I’m going to go, I’m going to go to Q&A.

Justin says, please make it stop.

Okay.

We will shut off the pane.

We will shut off the pane.

We’ll take one quick look.

This is the one that, that I did.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Okay.

It’s 30 minutes. 30 minutes.

It’s not much time.

You think it’s a lot of time.

It’s not much time.

Okay.

Let’s go to the drama.

They say, let’s go to the drama.

Can’t call people who created that site designers.

I think, I think you’re, you got a, you got a point.

You have a point.

Todd says, oh, by the way, Todd, just, if you guys are new here, when you put in questions, hashtag Q or hashtag question.

I just happened to see this question.

Most of them I’ll miss if they’re just in the chat.

Okay.

It says, how come you don’t use much animation in your designs?

Because I have one, it adds a lot of time to, it adds accessibility challenges that you have to resolve.

Three, I haven’t seen any data that says it increases conversions or the user experience or anything like that.

People like it because it looks cool.

It’s fancy.

These are not good reasons on a, on a website.

What I call a website of consequence, which is a website that’s trying to make money and convert.

We don’t care about chintzy stuff.

We care about stuff that actually adds to the bottom line.

Right.

It’s all about efficiency.

Animations can, obviously they are more things to process.

Right.

So there’s going to be some sort of performance implication involved.

There’s just a lot of implications for very little benefit.

Right.

You just, it’s about weighing pros and cons.

You just gave me, I just gave a laundry list of cons.

Now give me the pros.

Well, your pros can’t be, well, it looks cool.

Oh, it’s fancy.

It’s modern.

Like businesses don’t care about those things.

If they do, they’re not smart.

Right.

You should care about the things.

Let’s spend the time on SEO.

Let’s spend the extra time on copy.

Let’s spend the extra time on the offer.

Let’s spend the extra time on converting to leads, converting to sales, making sure we’re doing both of those, not just trying to convert to sales, but let’s go leads first.

Let’s, let’s convert the top of the funnel.

Let’s convert the middle of the funnel.

Let’s convert the bottom of the funnel.

There’s so many things that we could spend time on making a thing go.

When you enter the, like, what do we, is that a priority?

It’s not a priority.

Right.

Okay.

I’m going to go to a search hashtag Q.

All right.

We got a bunch of questions in the queue.

I’m now in a separate area where I can’t really see the chat.

So if you want your questions to get answered, they need to be hashtagged.

Okay.

All right.

Wow.

The first three things are like, what about the keynote?

What about Matt?

What about the, what about the keynote?

Okay.

Let’s answer some quick ones before we get to that stuff.

Cause that may, that may, you know, you may pull me in.

You may pull me into a little bit of a rant there.

When do we get to see the etch video prototype?

The people who pre-bought etch are already looking at one of the prototypes.

So yeah, you, you should have access to it if you’re in the etch community.

Okay.

Oh, please tell us about the drama.

Please tell us about the drama.

Please tell us about the drama.

Did you skip a word camp presentation to play golf?

No.

So the presentation started on Wednesday.

I flew in on, we flew in on Monday.

We played golf on Monday.

Tuesday was, what was Tuesday?

Tuesday was contributor day, which is everybody gather around and work for free for Matt.

That’s what contributor day amounts to.

I’m not really big on contributor day.

I’m not really big on, you know, working for free.

That’s just a thing.

It’s kind of one of those principles, you know?

The next day was showcase day, which is a new thing that they’re doing, which I actually think is a, it’s a pretty, it’s a good concept.

Showcase day is a good concept.

It’s kind of like show us cool shit you’ve done with WordPress.

Now they had a Disney talk there.

The Disney talk, I went to the Disney talk.

It was how Disney rebuilt a lot of their sites with Gutenberg, essentially.

I will give you the, I will give you the rundown on that.

If we had to sum up the 45 minute talk, first of all, I mean, I think if you’re, if you’re representing Disney, I mean, I want to, I don’t want to talk bad about it.

It’s just, you’re asking me for my feedback.

This is my feedback.

This is just my honest feedback.

Okay.

If you’re coming from Disney, the land of magic, like you got to bring, you should bring some magic with you or something.

Right.

The first 15 minutes of the talk, I swear was like, here’s who I am.

And here’s who Disney is.

It’s like, all right.

I mean, we just flew like a thousand miles.

We all know who Disney is.

You don’t have to tell us all about Disney.

We all know who Disney is.

Okay.

Get right to the meat, get to the meat of the thing.

So the first 15 minutes was like an intro to Disney.

The second 15 minutes was essentially their broad vision was we need to build patterns.

Essentially they built frames.

That’s what they did.

But they built them manually using custom blocks.

Let me go to, we should, we should have something to look at here.

I will bring up, let’s just spin up.

Cause people are going to ask me maybe some dev questions.

Let me just spin something up real quick.

From blueprint.

Let’s go bricks.

Blueprint creates like, okay.

We’ll use that if anybody has any technical questions that they want to look at.

All right.

Essentially guys, they spent a year building frames with custom blocks in Gutenberg.

And I don’t even think, correct me if I’m wrong.

Is Mark still here in the chat?

Did they say, or Brendan, are you guys still here?

Did they say they used ACF to do the custom block?

They didn’t even do like legit custom blocks.

They did ACF custom blocks.

Was that, am I hearing that right?

Or are remembering that right?

So I think that’s what they did.

And then they deployed it.

And you think to yourself like, Doug, like everything that they did, they could have done with frames and bricks and automatic CSS in like a couple of weeks.

Deploying it across like however many sites they did, that would be the time consuming thing.

But you can take that whole year of building custom blocks and just get rid of it.

Like you don’t even need it.

Now, in all fairness, you know, if they want to use Gutenberg to do the assembling and all of that, now we’re talking etch, right?

That’s where, the etch would have been a perfect, perfect, perfect platform for them.

Absolutely perfect.

They wouldn’t have had to, they would have already had all the patterns available to them.

And they would all be blocks automatically.

And then they could just start, just start migrating the sites to it.

They would have saved a year of time and probably half a million dollars.

It’s probably what they spent on all their custom blocks a year to about all the people working on it.

I don’t know.

But it’s Disney.

You know, corporations like to overspend dramatically.

But yeah, I mean, if etch existed, it literally would have been the perfect platform for them.

It would have, it would have saved them a tremendous amount of time and money and given them the exact same benefits and the exact same workflow.

Period.

That was, to me, that was my takeaway.

It was like, damn, we’re building the right thing.

We are building the right thing.

Because that’s an enterprise level project and etch would have, was a perfect fit for it.

Not to mention, you can use etch on any size project.

But to know that it’s exactly what was needed, essentially, for that, for Disney.

Like if you could build Disney’s sites with etch, it’s a done deal.

It’s a wrap, my friends.

So that’s what, that’s the takeaway that I got from it.

But really, if you wanted anything technical, there was none, there was no zero technical.

Now, they did an after talk, but I’ve been to those two.

I’ve been to those two.

Those are supposed to be the come get the details.

But they’re only 30, 45 minutes.

And then, you know, they’ll show you like one custom block and then they’ll, you know, it’s not, you don’t get a lot out of it.

So it was kind of a waste of time.

It’s kind of, other than confirming that we’re on the right track with etch, the rest of it was kind of a waste of time.

But showcase day, I think is a really good, good platform.

Or good format, I guess I should say.

And here’s what I will say about the talks.

Because I’ve been to three WordCamps now.

And I come away, obviously, we confirm every single time that the vast majority of the talks are not worth going to.

If you know anything about, like, web design.

Like, if you’re a beginner, I don’t know why you would be at a WordCamp if you’re like a pure beginner.

But if you are a beginner, you’ll get stuff out of a lot of the talks, right?

But if you’ve been around the block, you’re not going to get a lot out of the talks.

And that’s really what’s sad to me.

Because what I think a conference like that should be.

I mean, think of the size of the WordPress ecosystem, right?

Gigantic WordPress ecosystem.

Millions of people doing probably, like, a lot of them are probably doing standard stuff.

Most of them doing standard stuff.

But there’s some people in there that are just doing some just crazy stuff.

And it’s like, look at the creativity.

Look at the technical execution.

Look at the new approach to solving old problems, right?

Find those people and bring them to talk so they can inspire everybody and show off what they’re doing, right?

And talk about what they’re doing and teach what they’re doing.

It seems like every talk is just, like, super basic, surface-level stuff.

There’s no inspiration.

There’s no magic.

There’s no, oh, my God, cutting edge.

Like, when I used to go to photography conferences, it was completely the opposite.

People were showing new lighting techniques, new ways to frame things, new processing techniques.

It was always like you were learning, like, some cutting-edge shit.

Because you bought a ticket.

You traveled.

You attended.

That’s where the good shit should be, right?

But no.

Like, WordPress is the opposite.

WordPress is like, no, we’re going to show you nothing cutting edge.

Everything that we’re showing you has been done for the last three to five years.

And we’re just going to reiterate some of this stuff.

And we’re going to dumb it down in case you’re a beginner in the audience, right?

Now, you could also fix this with tracks, like a beginner track, an advanced track.

And this would actually help the speakers.

Because I think as it stands right now, a speaker giving a talk.

If I was giving a talk.

By the way, the first thing I would do at a talk.

Okay?

This is the first thing I would do coming on stage.

I haven’t seen it done yet.

I don’t know why.

What’s the first part of copywriting, right?

And market.

You have to know who you’re talking to.

Well, you come on stage at a WordCamp.

There’s hundreds of people in the audience, perhaps.

Okay?

You don’t know who they are, what they do, what their experience level is.

Well, you’re just going to give your talk?

Like, I want to know.

I’d be like, raise your hand if you’re a beginner.

Raise your hand if you’ve been doing this for two plus years.

Raise your hand if you’ve been doing this for five plus years.

And if I got a lot of people that are five plus years, and I got a very few people who are the beginner, sorry to the beginners, right?

But I’m going to go into more technical detail.

I’m going to talk more to the people who are actually sitting in the seats.

And that’s one problem with WordCamps right now is the speakers don’t really know.

There’s no tracks for experience level.

So the speakers don’t know who they’re talking to.

And I guess naturally, they try to dumb things down and make it simple for everybody to understand.

We shouldn’t have to do that.

We shouldn’t have to do that, right?

Okay, let me go to, let me check in on the chat real quick.

I hate how I have to go back and forth, but it is what it is.

Some of you are still putting questions in the chat, by the way.

Those will get missed almost certainly.

Okay, I would love if WordCamps are actually useful.

Talks, yeah, exactly, exactly.

WC didn’t even publish the schedule of talks until 10 days before.

Yeah, that’s a problem too.

Was this here?

Okay, that’s actually a question.

Does not make any sense.

Those projects need to be done by code, version control, etc.

They were, I believe, that’s why they did custom blocks.

I’m pretty sure they, I don’t think they talked about version control.

Yeah, they had two talks in the tech one.

They said they used ACF.

So that’s another thing.

Like every person I talk to will say, that uses custom blocks, will say, I use custom blocks.

And then I dig a little further and it turns out they’re using ACF custom blocks.

So they’re using a cheat code for the, nobody, I don’t think I’ve met a single person that actually makes custom blocks from scratch the way that is outlined in WordPress’s documentation.

And that to me goes to show you that like even Disney is using a shortcut because custom blocks are too hard.

That’s, that’s an astronomical failure.

That is an astronomical workflow failure of like what WordPress is proposing should be the workflow, right?

You’re forced almost to use a third party tool.

And then, and then what is this like close to core bullshit?

Stop with the close to core bullshit at that point.

We’re using ACF blocks, man.

That’s not core, okay?

It’s just, it’s such a huge disconnect, man.

It’s really frustrating.

Really frustrating.

Okay.

WPE nowadays.

Okay.

Yeah, there’s another one.

Guess who owns advanced custom fields?

It’s a good segue.

Yeah.

WP engine.

Correct.

WP engine.

Brendan says, I made frames and pine grow custom blocks in three months.

When do I get the Disney money?

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

But you know, it’s Disney, you know, you know how many, every decision about like you want Bev, there’s gotta be 30 Bev’s in the Disney boardroom, right?

Everybody’s probably got their opinions.

It’s gotta, every decision’s gotta go through 18 people probably.

That tremendously slows down projects.

So yeah, it’s, there’s that too.

Okay.

I just happened to see this one.

It doesn’t have a hashtag.

It’s gotta have a hashtag, Marcel, or it’s gonna get lost.

Have you moved from InstaWP to ZipWP?

Any insights or benefits?

Or did Adam get you a good deal?

I am currently essentially testing ZipWP.

I will say the performance is better.

The performance is better.

I do like the interface better.

Does it have all of the same?

Is it, you know, parity and features?

I think ZipWP probably has more features.

Now, do I need those features?

Maybe not.

Probably not.

I don’t know.

I’m not 100% ready to make a determination, right?

I want to spend, I’m trying to spend more time with it, essentially.

I am leaning towards Zip at this point.

Leaning towards Zip at this point.

I just, I really like the, I, the interface is big for me.

Like it’s, you know, Zip is a little bit cluttered on, on their interface.

And then performance obviously is a big deal.

So, and I’ll give you an example.

Like ZipWP, when I save, you saw me save automatic CSS settings, two, two and a half seconds usually to save and regenerate all the style sheets.

On Insta, that’s like seven to eight seconds a lot of times.

Like that’s a huge difference in terms of performance, whatever’s happening behind the scenes there.

It makes a, it’s a, it’s a big deal.

It’s a big deal.

So, uh, caching issues, I’ve had caching issues with, uh, Insta that I’m not, that I haven’t had with, with ZipWP.

Stability feels a little bit more stable to me.

I haven’t had any, any issue.

And, you know, I don’t have a ton of issues with Insta.

Like some people say they do, but I have, I’ve had zero essentially with Zip.

So I don’t, yeah, I’m just, it’s, it’s all signs, you know, are pointing that direction.

Um, ZipWP’s main focus is AI generated sites.

I don’t think that’s the main focus.

I think that’s just one of the things that they heavily advertised.

I don’t think it’s their main focus though.

Like this whole backend, um, you got these two options here, but the main options right here are all typical deploying staging sites, deploying blueprints, uh, things like that.

Disney tech vid 10 minutes in.

There you go.

Uh, but you can’t put a link Mark.

Okay.

He took out the actual H.

Yeah.

Okay.

You’re going to have to decode that link, everybody, if you want to use that, but that is the link to the, uh, video for Disney.

Okay.

Where’s the etch community?

I’ve heard nothing since 12.

Well, if you purchased it, you should have gotten an invite.

And if you haven’t gotten an invite yet, I think everybody’s in there now for the most part, based on the numbers I was looking at earlier.

Uh, but reach out to etch at digital gravy.co.

You need to make sure that you maybe find your receipt and forward it when you do that.

And just cause then we don’t have to check.

We can get you in faster.

Uh, yeah.

Okay.

Let’s go back to cues.

All right.

Let’s talk about the WordPress drama.

We’ve got about eight people saying more than that.

Say, tell me about the WordPress drama.

Okay.

How do we, how do we sum this up?

Well, if you haven’t watched the talk and you haven’t read my article, okay, here, here’s, here’s one thing you should do.

Go to gary.co, go to blog and go to this article right here.

And this will give you a link to the, it wasn’t a talk.

Let’s be honest.

It wasn’t, he didn’t give a talk.

He walked on stage and he read this blog post.

That’s what he did.

Um, and in that blog post, he attacks WP engine, uh, for not contributing to WordPress enough.

Not at all.

Just enough.

Now I’ll give you the synopsis.

I, I don’t understand the arguments.

Okay.

Um, I understand what he’s trying to say is an argument, but it honestly, it doesn’t make sense to me.

If I was going to sum it up.

I would say that Matt Mullenweg and automatic are in a legal battle with WP engine, but they’re not making any legal arguments.

That’s I, I know if you’re like, that doesn’t seem to make exactly.

Now, if I’m missing something and somebody wants to clear it up of what the legal argument actually is, that would be fantastic.

But what I’ve heard so far is we’re in a legal battle.

Why are you in the legal battle?

Well, WP engine leverages WP and on WP engine site, they use the word WordPress in their hosting packages and they’ve built a ginormous company doing this.

And they have a, an outside investment firm called silver Lake.

And there’s this guy on the board at silver Lake or something.

I don’t know what his position is, who I really, really, really don’t like because he did something, something, something.

And, but really the bottom line is WP engine makes a gazillion dollars and they use the WordPress name, but they don’t contribute back.

That’s kind of the gist of the argument.

Now, if you’re like, that doesn’t sound very like, where’s the legal attack there, right?

That’s, I don’t know.

I, I don’t know.

I don’t know.

If you ask questions like basic questions, is WP engine allowed to use WP in their domain and in their products and services and yada, yada, yada.

The answer is yes, they are.

So that’s not a legal thing.

They can do that.

They can do that.

You ask another question like, is WP engine required to contribute back to WordPress?

The answer very clearly is no.

Okay.

So they’re not required to contribute.

We hate them because they’re not contributing enough.

Are they contributing?

Yes.

Okay.

How much are they contributing?

Well, 40 hours a week, I guess.

Which Matt says is about $100,000 a year, which is nothing like peanuts compared to the amount of money they make.

And that’s why he’s upset.

Why?

Because Automatic, his company contributes, I think, 4,000 hours a week or something like that.

Don’t quote me on any of these numbers.

I’m just off the top of my head.

I don’t know.

But I think, you know, people can put in the chat, correct me if I’m wrong, correct the numbers, whatever.

I’m giving you the general gist of what’s going on, right?

Okay.

So let’s keep asking questions.

Are they required legally to contribute to WordPress?

No.

WordPress is open source.

So then he has another argument, which is like, but they change WordPress.

They manipulate it.

Like, for example, they get rid of revisions.

So they turn off the revision system in WordPress.

They turn off the news feed in the dashboard.

They, and then, you know, he might give you extra examples.

So I think maybe one of the arguments is, well, they’ve manipulated WordPress.

So what they’re selling to their customers is not actually WordPress, but they’re marketing it as WordPress and therefore something, something, something, something.

And I don’t even know what it’s like.

They’re not allowed to make that much money or they’re not allowed to use WP anymore, or they’re not allowed to say it’s WordPress in it.

I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know.

To me, none of these are legal arguments because WordPress is open source dog.

This is, this is why you can’t fight for open source and say anybody can manipulate the software and do with it what they please.

And then, you know, what I would like to see is why is WP Engine killing automatic, like in, in the marketplace?

What are they doing that automatic should be doing?

Right?

It’s not automatic is not being held back by their contributor hours.

Like if they can make the argument, well, because we contribute so much to WordPress, we’re not able to be as successful.

We’re not able to be competitive with you.

Automatic has all the advantages.

They have all the, they control the plugin ecosystem for WordPress.com.

They are allowed to use WordPress.com, the entire actual name of WordPress in their product.

They are selling all the same things as WP Engine.

What automatic can do that?

But WP Engine can’t apparently.

And you can’t tell me what automatic can do it because they didn’t disable revisions.

That’s not, I don’t see that flying ever as a legal argument.

I don’t understand what the legal argument is.

I’m not a lawyer, but to me, okay, if we’re just going to try this in the court of public opinion, does anybody see an actual legal argument here?

Why are we embroiled in a legal battle when so many people either, either you don’t understand, you’re confused, or you’re just, you have a really bad taste in your mouth.

Neither of those are a win for Matt.

Like the only way Matt can come out of this positively and with it looking good is if he can actually clearly communicate legal issues for the, and they need to be big enough that it, constitutes like all this stuff that has happened.

Do I think that you should go on stage at a WordCamp with first timers and bring these first timers?

Like I was just imagining, I bought a ticket, I flew there, it’s my first time, I just had a lot of talks, look at WordPress doing this, look, Disney’s using WordPress, this is so amazing.

I don’t even know why a beginner would be there, honestly.

Why, who, what?

If I was a beginner in Webflow, and I’m not even a beginner in like web design, but if I was a beginner in Webflow, like I would spend a lot of time with Webflow.

I’d watch a lot of Webflow YouTube videos.

I’d create a lot of projects in Webflow.

I would decide, man, I’m in love with Webflow.

I really want to go to a Webflow conference, right?

Who, I just, I want to meet the person.

I don’t think I’ve met one yet.

I want to meet the person that’s like, I just got into WordPress last week and here I am at WordCamp US.

Like, how did that, how did that happen?

How did that, how, that doesn’t compute in my brain.

Uh, but apparently there’s a lot of beginners there, but imagine you’re a beginner and you’re sitting in the audience and you’re like, man, it’s my first WordCamp.

This has been so amazing.

And then this guy comes on and just slaughters a competitor in front of everybody.

Um, that’s tough.

That’s tough.

Like that’s not, it doesn’t leave a great taste in your mouth, does it?

So to me, that’s an L.

Like you take an L because, you know, you chose the stage to do it on.

You’ve got so many stages.

You, you got so many ways of putting this out there.

If you want to put it out there and if you think it’s worth fighting for, I don’t think the WordCamp stage is like, was the best way to go.

You know?

Um, so there’s that, there’s that side of things.

And then there’s the just optics of like, dude, if we’re going to do this, you got to have like a rock solid case.

You got to have really good reasons.

And I know maybe he thinks he has really good reasons.

Um, but from the outside looking in, it’s like, dude, automatic’s doing the same thing.

WP engine’s doing.

You guys are essentially doing the same thing.

You contribute more than they do.

That’s a, to most people, that’s going to be a boo hoo.

Boo hoo.

Like you, this is one of the downsides of open source.

Like you, you, you could talk about all the great things of open source, which I think we have to have a conversation of the, what is the actual value of open source?

There are two things we really care about.

Data ownership and data liberation.

Now, up to this point, open source has provided those things, but it actually turns out you don’t need open source to provide either of those things.

You can provide both of those things without making software open source.

You could have a license that essentially says automatic owns WordPress.

Here’s the biggest, this is the biggest problem to me.

You could have a license that says automatic owns WordPress and you are able to use WordPress as a hosting company, but you’re not able to manipulate it.

You’re not able to alter it and change it.

Okay.

You have to give your customers the WordPress experience.

And that could even be done with a licensing deal.

That can be done a lot of different ways.

And this would not be, and you could also say, I mean, it’s up to you.

If you own the software, if you want to let other people contribute, you can say, you have to contribute this much back to it.

You can create these rules.

Okay.

What you can’t do is you can’t say it’s fully open source.

People can do with it what they please.

You can do whatever you want.

You just can’t use the word WordPress in the product because it’s trademarked.

But even to me, that’s not open source.

It’s not open source anymore.

When there’s a trademark control on the name, like you’re, you’re actually violating one of the principles of open source of the, just do with it what you will.

It’s a commons.

It’s a community thing.

That’s not a community thing.

If you claim to own the word, like you’ve already kind of violated that in my eyes.

Right.

But you, you can’t on one hand just espouse all the benefits of open source.

And this is so great.

And it’s all community driven.

But then go target somebody for using it in the way you just said it could be used and maybe should be used.

There’s actually no should anymore in open source.

You’re, you have no opinion as to how it should be used because you’re saying use it however you want.

Right.

So none of this stuff makes sense.

None of this stuff aligns to me.

I don’t understand the argument.

Certainly there’s no leap.

This is going to be the hardest legal battle ever fought.

Again, I’m not a lawyer, but I just don’t see a pathway.

To fighting this legally.

And so what do we, what do we end with?

We end with a word camp that ended very awkwardly and negatively.

Millions of dollars are about to be spent and wasted fighting a legal battle that is very murky and muddy.

It leaves a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths.

It turns people away from WordPress.

Let’s go back to pros and cons lists.

We’re developers.

We deal with pros and cons lists all the time.

Show me the pros.

What, what is like WP engine turns around and contributes the same contributor hours as automatic.

What, how much does that actually change in the world?

Right.

They’re still going to make gazillions of dollars.

Do you want to shut them down?

I don’t understand what the outcome is supposed to be.

I don’t understand the goal we’re shooting for.

I don’t understand a lot of things.

This just does not make sense.

It, I, I have to believe there’s something else going on behind the scenes that we’re not being told.

I don’t know.

Cause, but none of what we’re being told actually adds up.

That’s, that’s, if anybody has any insights other than that, uh, let me know.

You know, uh, KTM says Matt attempted to extort WP engine.

Yeah.

I mean, based on WP engines claims, he wanted, he wanted like some sort of licensing deal.

Um, yeah, I, I, I just, I just see a lot of, if I was an advisor, I would have just been like, this can’t happen.

Like not yet.

This is not a rock solid.

You have to have a, again, let me go back.

You have to have a rock solid case.

You have to know ahead of time, right?

You know, Congress, Congress will like, they’ll go vote on something.

Right.

But going into the vote before they bring it to the floor and let everybody do their thing.

They know whether they have the votes or not.

Okay.

You kind of need to do that in this situation.

You got to know that everybody’s behind you before you do something like that.

You can’t just bring it out of the blue all on your own and then be like, what do you guys think?

Like, man, that’s so there’s, there’s too much at stake.

It’s too costly.

Like that, that would be a, that’s a huge miscalculation in, in my estimation.

Like a lot of this is, is based on miscalculations.

Um, and so, yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s going to have to be a criticism of, of, of Matt in this regard.

And like I told somebody else in a DM, I’m like, even if he has some sort of legitimate, angle at this, he didn’t communicate it and it’s still too confusing and muddy and he’s going to lose in the court of public opinion.

So you’ve got to have an airtight case and you got to be able to communicate it before you take an action like the one that was taken.

I think that’s kind of how you wrap that up.

Okay.

Um, yeah.

Many things in life are about understanding.

We don’t know enough right now.

We don’t know enough and we may never do.

Yeah.

There could not even be more.

It could just not make any sense.

And we’re about to see one of the biggest L’s in the history of L’s.

Um, you know, that, that’s an option that could absolutely happen.

All right, let’s go five more minutes and we got to get out of here.

Um, okay.

Let me go back to questions since that’s really what we were here for.

Okay.

Could this kill WordPress?

Uh, no, no, it can’t kill WordPress.

It, it could severely damage Matt’s ability to lead WordPress.

Um, I, I don’t know if there’s a pathway to like Matt not being, um, the head of WordPress or whatever, uh, which is another awkward thing.

It’s like, there’s like one leader, but this is open source, but this is like community driven, but there’s one guy.

It, you know, none of it makes any sense.

None of him, none of it makes any sense.

Uh, okay.

Could you put a CG on the screen that says, right Q in your question so I can read it?

Um, yeah, I could, I could make a little banner.

I should make a little banner.

If he’s calling out WP engine, why not go daddy?

Oh, well, Jim, just go back a little ways.

I think he did years ago, call out go daddy in much the same way.

I haven’t looked into what the outcome of that was, but I do believe he went after go daddy.

But I think the argument with go daddy was, you know, maybe a little bit.

I don’t know, more relevant, maybe even less relevant.

I don’t know.

Cause go daddy doesn’t make all the, I think it’s less relevant, less relevant.

He had less of a leg to stand on against go daddy.

Why?

Because go daddy is not a WordPress host.

Go daddy does all kinds of stuff, right?

They sell domains.

They sell, they’ve got their, so their money, when you go, man, they’re making a gazillion dollars.

Well, a small percentage is off of WordPress.

Most of their money comes from other things, right?

His argument about WP engine is they’re exclusively WordPress.

So all of the money they make is based on WordPress.

But then I go back to, I mean, you can’t cry about that because it’s open source.

You said people could do with it what they wanted.

The WP engine is doing with it what they want.

And, and, you know, he’ll, he’ll say like, let me go to WP engine.

Let’s go to like products, WordPress hosting.

So this is what he objects to WordPress hosting.

Like you could say like a WooCommerce hosting, right?

I think he’s trying to say that’s a violation of the WordPress trademark.

Maybe the WooCommerce trademark.

Cause, but again, how is it?

You actually, you, you’re allowed to reference the name of a product.

Like you’re not, I just, I don’t.

And even if they win that, they’re probably going to have to just shift a word around or something to fix it and not even be like, I just don’t see.

Again, I’m not a lawyer, but like, this is just, but automatic does this too.

Automatic does, I’m pretty sure it says the exact same thing.

So it’s like my company can do it, but your company can’t do it.

Why?

Because it, it all goes back to, here’s, here’s the murkiness of it.

The contributor hours thing.

He keeps bringing up the contributor hours.

It’s almost like, Hey, I mean, if you contribute, I’ll let all that shit slide.

Why?

I mean, it’s a, if it’s a violation, it’s a violation.

You should prosecute the violation just on principle.

Like, don’t, this does feel very extorty.

Like, well, I mean, I can look the other way.

If you’re contributing developer hour, I, that, that part is, that shit has been left out.

They’re either violating something or they’re not violating something.

Let’s just keep it at that.

You can’t be like, well, they can buy their way in.

If they contribute more hours to an open source project.

Like that, that’s now we’re getting really murky, really murky.

And again, I think legally they’re going to look at that and be like, Oh, hold on.

Like, nah, nah.

Okay.

Can we get a link to the blog post?

Just go to Geary.co.

It’s super easy to find.

Geary.co.

Did Disney reveal why Donald Duck walks around bottom half naked, but wears a towel when he gets out of the bath?

They did not reveal that.

They did not reveal that.

Disney does a lot of sketchy stuff.

Let’s leave it at that.

I was the first one who spoke to Matt as he walked off stage.

I told him that if he was going to call out Silver Lake, he needs to call out New Fold Digital 2 for the, and then it got cut off.

That’s the other thing, man.

I think there’s so many people that could be called out, right?

There’s so many people that could be called out.

All right.

Let me go back to the chat.

We’ll finish on just some random chat stuff.

Yeah.

So many companies use the term WordPress hosting.

Matt should either sue everyone or leave it as is.

Exactly.

Exactly.

There’s a company being singled out because they’ve reached an income threshold, because they took money from an outside firm that has a specific guy that Matt doesn’t seem to like very much.

And again, I don’t even know the whole side of that story.

It got very murky because it’s like, let me target this one company because of this one guy, because of this one thing called contributor hours, because of this one thing called, they’re calling it WordPress.

It’s like trying to tie that web, weave that web.

You’re not weaving that web.

That web is so messy, right?

It’s just that’s straight downhill.

The issue with trademarks is that if you don’t protect them in every single case, you set a precedent.

If they knowingly let it slide in any situation, they’re legally screwed.

Yeah, I think that’s what I exactly.

Exactly.

That’s why I said, by the way, you have if you’re going to say it’s a violation, you’ve got to prosecute it as the violation, not as the well, it’s really only a violation because they only contribute 40 contributor hours to five for the future.

That is what the argument was, and it’s like, it’s either a violation or it’s not a violation, and you’re either going to have to prosecute everybody or you’re going to prosecute nobody.

It can’t be all this personal vendetta stuff wrapped in.

That ain’t going to fly.

My social handles have WP in it, and my client thinks I am WordPress.

Who can say?

Yeah, yeah.

That was one of the arguments was like, well, because it’s called WP Engine, people think that’s actually WordPress.

But then it’s like, oh, you have WordPress.com.

If anybody thinks something is WordPress, they think it’s WordPress.com, okay?

Let’s be as honest as we can possibly be.

Ain’t nobody going to be like, WP Engine, WordPress.com.

WP Engine is clearly WordPress.

Like, that ain’t, that ain’t, you’re not, again, an argument you just can’t make.

Nobody’s buying it.

Nobody’s going to buy that.

And we would have had all these conversations.

Like, if I was an advisor, we would have had all these conversations ahead of time.

Like, none of this stuff flies, dude.

Like, you’re just, you’re not going to be able to make these arguments and get people on your side.

Okay.

Mainsail says, enough drama for me, but before I leave, awesome first demo of Etch today on IC.

Loved everything I saw.

To be clear, it wasn’t on IC.

It was in the Etch community, but yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

I think we’re going to have to get out of here today.

I’m back from Portland.

I got a bunch of work to do.

We are chugging along.

WordPress is not going to crumble.

It’s not going to burn.

It’s not, you know.

I won’t even go there.

I won’t even go there.

We got to save the, we’re not ready for that.

We’re not ready for that conclusion.

We’re not ready for that conclusion, but maybe we will be ready for that conclusion soon.

But I’ll stay away from it for right now.

WordPress is fine.

I feel like Baghdad Bob right now.

You know, the US is not in Iraq and there’s like tanks rolling behind me.

WordPress is fine, guys.

WordPress is fine.

Nothing to see here.

Let’s just all keep doing the work that we do.

Let’s keep helping each other.

Let’s keep producing content.

This stuff will sort itself out.

We’ll be back to normal soon.

Okay.

And next Tuesday, more importantly, I’ll be back with another WDD live.

So thank you for attending.

Thanks for the likes, the comments, the sharing.

I’ll see you next Tuesday.

Peace. Thank you.