WDD LIVE 050- Dear Cwicly Customers (+ Q&A-AMA)

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0:00:00
Hello, everybody. Hello, hello, hello. As you will hear, I’m not 100%. I’m a little bit under the weather. I’m also running on four hours of sleep. I did not sleep well last night. I’m not 100%. I’m not fantastic. So we’re going to do as much of this as we can and then I’m just going to go kind of chill a little bit today. See the math doesn’t even work. I mean let’s start out with, I mean obviously we’re going to jump right into the quickly conversation.

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0:00:46
I want to say hi to everybody first. What a time, what a time for the Facebook team to rage quit as well. I mean, this is what’s happening. What’s happening on the Internet? Yeah, I first I thought I got hacked. I was like, oh my God, what what happened? Then I went to Twitter and I saw everybody. Everybody was freaking out.

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0:01:07
So then I was like, OK, good. But yeah, let’s let’s say hi to some people. We do need to get right into this. Team Kili is here. Michael, welcome. Ross, Donatas, Ahmad, Isaac, Fussy. Derek is here. Good to see you, my man. Isaac, Sylvia, got a lot of familiar faces. Justin says just announced ACSS 3.0 alpha one was just released this morning to the private alpha group so major major major progress on that front major progress on

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0:01:48
that front we are not far away my friends we are not far away okay Jamie Lynn is here Ross Brendan Derek I saw Derek Lee Samir Rashad love this. Okay, we obviously have a lot of new faces. Maybe people haven’t been here in a while. We’ve got good numbers already. Scott Coe here on InnoTrends. Welcome, Scott. Good to see you.

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Okay.

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Thanks, Justin. Thank you. Okay. Oh, I’m in the wrong chat as well. Let’s go ahead and close this up. I gotta get on my game here. Okay. Let’s get the right window open.

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These are all things that help. All right, now I can actually elevate comments onto the screen. Okay, what we normally do here, if you’re new here, this is WDD Live. I go live every single Tuesday at 11 a.m. Eastern. We talk shop, we talk web design, we talk CSS, we talk workflow and efficiency, we talk agency stuff.

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0:02:47
We talk a lot of important topics are covered here. But one of the heart of what we do is critiques, live critiques, we do web design critiques. And in the process, people who attend get to learn a lot about what makes a website successful. We were gonna do two of those today until I really just did not feel great.

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0:03:10
I was gonna do the quickly thing and then our normal critique thing and then we always do Q&A as well. So this is your opportunity. Every WDD Live gives you an opportunity to ask any questions that you have about design, dev, UX, UI, marketing, SEO, anything, anything that is in the realm of what we do.

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0:03:31
You can also ask about things like automatic CSS and frames, and we do many tutorials, you know, I very often will pull up just a dev environment and somebody be like, how do I do XYZ? And I’ll just show them how to do it real quick. So that’s fun. And that’s normally what we do. Today is going to be a little bit different. Today we’re going to talk about the quickly thing.

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And then we’re just going to do q&a. So we’ll open it up. And let’s see, Dan, can we be careful with your voice? You really do sound of it yeah oh well let me tell you let me tell you last night’s softball practice because I’m the coach of my daughter’s softball team did not do me any good whatsoever like I was already feeling it and then I had to go basically yell for 90 minutes absolutely destroyed my voice it’s it’s 200% better than it was last night so

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0:04:23
so that’s good but yeah that did not help. Okay, let’s go ahead and get right into this. It’s tough to know exactly where to start and we’re gonna kind of wind around a little bit as we go. But if you have been living under a rock, we woke up on, was it Sunday? Sunday, it was a very odd day. It was like, yeah, woke up on Sunday to this notice.

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0:04:52
Let me go ahead and share my screen. Uh, let’s go. Oh, screen share. Good. You should be able to see it now. So I wake up to this notice. And I, and I first actually, before I saw the notice, I saw somebody posting about the notice on Facebook. And then I was like, no, no way. Uh, and, and I, the I immediately went to the quickly Facebook group because I was like, well, there’s got to be something official. And there it was right. Then I went to the quickly website and I was like, Oh my God, there it is, too.

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0:05:18
It’s everywhere. It’s true. And I was like, this is an absolute shock. Right. Like this has never happened before. This is not something that’s you know, this is uncharted waters. Basically, this has never happened before. So, I mean, I know all of you can read just fine, but I’ll go ahead and read it. It says discontinuation of quickly development after much deliberation and soul searching, I’ve made the difficult decision

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to discontinue the development of the Quickly plugin. This decision has been deeply influenced by recent events that have profoundly affected both me personally and the team. Unfortunately, the relentless onslaught of destructive posts and comments by certain WordPress influencers has created an atmosphere

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0:05:58
that has made it increasingly challenging for us to continue with our vision for Quickly. Since the launch of Quickly, not only have we had to build our product, but have suffered the constant undermining of our choice to embrace the WordPress vision in Gutenberg. In addition, personal attacks on both myself and team members have been made

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0:06:14
and openly tolerated throughout. The negativity and hostility directed towards Quickly, especially in comparison to other page builders, have taken a significant toll on our morale and motivation. Every effort we make to enhance or introduce new features is met with unwarranted criticism and untruths, making it increasingly difficult for us to operate in such a hostile environment. The passion and dedication that we have had from the start has been

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0:06:37
gradually diluted enthusiasm has given way to dread working in such a negative climate has taken a significant toll on the team, making it nearly impossible to continue each day Okay, so I read that and I’m not what I’m not going to do is in this in this live stream I’m not going to get into the details of why of what I think actually happened I do think that if you believe that quickly was shut down because of anything an influencer had to say, I’ve got a bridge to sell you somewhere.

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0:07:19
That this is not why projects like Quickly get shut down. Just, that’s it. And I’ve talked to many, many, many people who are product developers, okay? Not just random people on the internet. This is not why products get shut down. So I will go into detail on what I think, what I think is going on from an outside perspective.

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0:07:44
Of course, it will all be speculation, but if you are interested, I do think there are, whether it’s actually the reason or not does not matter. The analysis of what I would see as the challenges with quickly, okay? There is value in talking about those challenges, but there’s not value in talking about those challenges right now because first of all when something like this happens, I don’t think that it’s fantastic a fantastic idea to just immediately

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0:08:20
rush to judgment and conclusions and assumptions and all of this. Now with this said, I think it’s very clear. There’s not many influencers, whatever that means, talking about quickly publicly. And I have to assume, and many other people have assumed, okay, I’ve already been attacked plenty of times. People have to assume that it’s referring to me in some capacity because it uses words and phrases that have been used when directly referring to me before.

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0:08:58
For example, untruths, right? There’s a whole like untruths stream, right? About things that I’ve said, whatever. But again, we’re not going to get into those details in this stream. We’ll get into all of that next week. I’m saving that. I’m waiting a week because again, I don’t think it’s valuable to just go right into this. What I, and I posted this in a couple different groups and a couple different threads. What I initially, my initial reaction to reading this was, okay, this is a situation where there’s an individual

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0:09:36
Individual who needs a lot of space and they need time and they need empathy and They need the benefit of the doubt. I have no idea what’s going on. I have zero clue what? The real I mean there are obviously we could talk about challenges with quickly, right But as far as the personal side of things like the person behind behind I have no idea what’s going on. And so my first thought reading that is, we all just need to, first of all, like I told people, don’t rush in and start emailing

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0:10:13
quickly, demanding refunds, and you know, definitely not sending angry, upset, this is, that can happen next week or whatever, like, but get, like, they just, this just feels like a situation where they need space. That’s what that’s what they need right now. And so that’s what I’m giving them right. I emailed Lewis almost immediately after reading this with just general words of encouragement. And, you know, I just I was in shock. I didn’t know. Right. And but I felt like I needed to reach out.

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So I reached out.

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I haven’t heard back.

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That’s all I can say. So again, I feel like this would all be great if we just wait a little bit, like maybe in a few days, if it is a situation, because in my mind, here’s what I envisioned happened. He wrote this message and he published it. And he was, I mean, again, just trying to put myself in his shoes.

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0:11:16
I don’t know. Like, I would imagine having to do something like this after two years of or whatever it’s been of tremendous work, you would be heartbroken, right? You would be shattered, right? So you know, he I envision him publishing this and literally like closing his computer and just leaving for a few days. And so that’s the time, that’s the space, that’s the like, okay, like clear your head,

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you come back, and then you can have some sort of rational, hopefully, explanation. And you can address things in a productive way. I don’t know. So I was just like, we don’t know what’s gonna happen, it just seems like they need space, so let’s not go into it right away. Now, that’s the person behind the product.

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0:12:05
That’s not all of their customers. So really what we’re here to talk about is the customer base of Quikly. What do they do right now? Now I have heard from people, like I didn’t hear back, but people have told me that they heard back or it was posted somewhere or something that this is not a decision that will be reversed.

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0:12:23
This is final, there’s no changing minds here. And I know a lot of people have talked about, hey, you know, somebody could just acquire this thing somebody Well, first of all, I mean, if you want to acquire it, it has to be, you know, offered to you. So if they don’t want to offer it, then that’s going to be tough, then you could try to fork it. But a project of this size and scope, and I mean, it is in it’s probably insanely complex. It’s going to take months and months and months and months for an development team that has both the skill plus the vision plus money, money, like I mean, let’s just be honest money, it’s going to take a lot of money to make this thing go anywhere from here. So it’s not just gonna, you can’t be like, Oh, that’s just that’s clearly what’s going to happen. That’s not clearly what’s going to happen. You know, if, if I put my money on anything,

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0:13:17
it probably goes nowhere, if they don’t want it to go anywhere. So what, you know, it leaves us with like, what does the customer base do? They’re not in a good spot by any means. They’ve been basically given a year, right? I believe they had a notice about, we’re going to continue to support quickly

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0:13:33
with bug fixes and security updates for, I guess, till the end of this year. So I guess you have less than a year. So you have less than a year. Because it’s not, I mean, we just saw by the recent security vulnerabilities and things like that, and in fact, quickly had one of the security vulnerabilities.

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0:13:51
I mean, after the bug fixes and security updates stop, it’s not safe to use quickly past that point. So you basically need an exit plan, like now, like stat. I feel really, really bad for, I mean, imagine you just convinced a client, and I know this happens all the time, but imagine you just convinced a client, like, yeah, you know, there’s this up and coming platform

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called Quickly, and we just, we really love it, we really think it’s the future, yada, yada, we definitely think it’s safe to build your site on it. And I mean you could have just finished this and published it up. And I mean there’s maybe tens of thousands of dollars invested in this thing. And then you wake up on Sunday morning to this.

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0:14:36
I mean what now, because you think about this, right? And I’ll talk about my perspective and the perspective of other developers as well. That’s a hard conversation to have now with that client. That’s a really, really hard conversation. That puts you in a really, really awkward position, a really bad position, frankly.

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0:14:53
And it’s gonna put you in a position where likely you’re gonna have to eat the cost of rebuilding that entire project. That’s, unfortunately, that’s on you, right? Yes, it’s on quickly, but it’s your agency. It’s your business. So that is also on you. And I would recommend you not try to pawn that off.

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0:15:15
Like I would recommend that you just eat it and say, we’re gonna do the right thing here and we’ll rebuild the site for you on a more stable platform. Hopefully a platform that we believe is more stable. From a developer perspective, and I’ve seen some other developers talking about this, it’s like, this is really harmful to us, honestly, because it continues to put this thought in people’s minds. They already have this, I

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0:15:47
know, it’s so weird. It’s like, people don’t like the gigantic developers who are buying anything in every plug-in, right, and taking them over and then turning them into dog shit and putting notices everywhere, right? Okay, we all know. But then they also are like, I don’t know if it’s safe to go with smaller developers because shit like this happens. And shit like this does happen a lot. There’s a risk to being an early adopter

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0:16:14
of something, obviously. So you honestly, when I early adopt something, I early adopted North Commerce, for example. And that was probably two years ago now that I early adopted. I haven’t seen anything to do like I haven’t touched North Commerce since I early adopted it. Okay now it’s it’s it’s rising from the ashes like a phoenix. Okay I have I have hope for North Commerce now. I have I have hope for North Commerce and I’m super excited to play with it. I’ve actually been talking to the developer and working with them on potential foundational decisions

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that will help with an automatic CSS integration and so on and so forth. But honestly, here’s where I was getting at. When I gave North Commerce my money, I basically said, I’m okay with never seeing this again. I gave my money to North Commerce as like a hope that, because my hatred for WooCommerce, I was like, we have to have an alternative.

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0:17:18
Please try to build an alternative. And if you fail, you fail and my money goes with you. And that’s okay. But I’m giving you the money because I want the effort to take place. Sometimes that’s what you have to do as an early adopter. And this is what I said when I said, don’t rush. The thing with Lewis that I think I can confidently say is like this is not nobody got scammed

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0:17:42
This is not like a fly-by-night Developer who doesn’t give a fuck and just wanted everybody’s money and then dissipate that’s not what happened here So, you know if that kind of shit happens by all means I mean get out the pitchforks and the torches and all of that stuff and go get your shit back, right? But that’s not what happened here again when I read this what I saw is like, okay, we need to, this is not, this is not a healthy situation, right? So let’s just press pause on things

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0:18:10
and give some space and some empathy and some time. But again, the reason we’re doing this livestream is that doesn’t do any customers of Quickly any good whatsoever. So there’s smaller developers, I think, that have been harmed by this. There’s customers of Quickly who have been harmed by this, there’s customers of those customers of Quikly who have been harmed by this.

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0:18:34
And so I think what’s happening, I’ve read a lot of threads, I’ve read a lot of threads from Quikly users like, I don’t know where to go next. And then there’s some people who are like, well I have some ideas of where to go next but this really just sucks like it’s going to be a hard transition and I don’t know. There’s just people in a lot of different situations So all I can do Is do what I can do and so I am going to offer Today because here’s the thing

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0:19:03
This this was actually the third piece to all of this Yeah, it puts customers in an awkward position. It puts other smaller developers in an awkward position. You know who also it puts in an awkward position? People like me. People who actively give their opinion on like, yes, I think you should buy quickly.

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0:19:23
When I said for the last three to five months, maybe even longer, that I think quickly is the number two page builder for WordPress, a lot of fucking people went and bought quickly because I said that, a lot of them, right? Obviously we don’t have the numbers, we don’t know what the numbers are,

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0:19:39
but I get messages all the time from like, I bought quickly because of you, I bought quickly because of you, I bought quickly because of you, okay? And that, it feels bad, like it feels, that’s not a good feeling to have, because it feels like I helped steer a group of people into this decision to buy quickly and now this shit happens and so

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0:20:06
like I said earlier when we’re an agency or a freelancer we need to we need to eat that and be like that sucks but yeah I brought you into the situation Mr. client and so I’m gonna fix this for you same thing here so I brought a bunch of people into that situation so all I can offer is what I can offer.

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Right.

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0:20:28
So if you, if you purchased quickly, now what I was going to say is initially, like, if you purchase quickly because of my recommendation, then I want you to send me your receipt. Okay. Um, obviously that’s like a, I mean, how do you prove that? Like, how do you, like, it just has to be like, if you bought quickly at this point, it’s not even like, cause anybody can just be like, well it was because of you.

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0:20:51
There’s no way to map to when they made the decision to buy quickly or why. So what we’re gonna do is if you email your quickly receipt to hello at automaticcss.com, we’ll put the hard, write the URL down there so we don’t put links and stuff. But go ahead and email your receipt in and what we’re going to do is we’re going to give you a voucher for the value of that and that voucher can be to the automatic CSS LTD or the frames LTD or will do something with the

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0:21:29
lower plans if you want to do something with the lower plan and I want to talk about why you would want to do that. Obviously, Automatic CSS and Frames is not a builder. It’s not a page builder like Quickly. You can’t just jump from Quickly to Automatic CSS and then you’re building websites, right? There are other tools involved. Now, Automatic CSS supports Bricks.

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0:21:52
It supports Oxygen. It supports Breakdance. It supports Generate. And there’s a bunch of other options coming to you. One from our team as we go forward into 2024 and 2025. So you have a pick of various platforms that you could use this on. This is a framework for WordPress, right?

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0:22:17
It’s specifically designed for that environment. All right, what else do you get? Because that’s not it, right? What’s very important in this industry and what I think these tools like quickly, and when we get into details next week, I think this will make a lot more sense. Again, I’m trying not to get into too much detail here,

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0:22:41
but when we do get into detail next week, you will see how important what I’m about to say is. Because what you also get when you are in the automatic CSS frames ecosystem, right, you’re really buying into process. You’re really buying into workflow. We really believe that we’ve put together some tools and processes and workflows and features that tremendously, tremendously speed up

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web design and development. And not speed up in terms of cutting corners, but speed up in terms of you just, you actually get to a better destination faster. So you’re building better websites. And why are you building better websites? Because the tools encourage you to build better websites and we are really big, probably the biggest on education.

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0:23:32
So when you’re in this ecosystem, you’re constantly being educated right we put out a tremendous amount of free content you have page building 101 probably one of the one of if not the best especially free I mean obviously it’s like everybody that comments is like you know I paid hundreds of or thousands of dollars for courses and I learn more in the first four episodes right and there’s 19 episodes okay so there’s that there’s the ACSS community where you come in and literally you’re asking a how does this work how does that work and everybody is jumping into we have one of the most

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0:24:15
helpful and robust and and kind communities available anywhere so that’s available to you if you want to go deeper you have the inner circle right where you can learn about agency and freelance stuff. Okay, so the support and the education that surrounds our tools, that’s priceless. And it’s something that doesn’t exist with so many, and that’s why, again, can’t get into the details, you might see low adoption.

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0:24:44
You might see a low number of active sites and so on and so forth uh… all a lot of the builders have this challenge right so uh… we have the education side of things uh… in terms of your workflow in terms of the work that you’re doing these tools these processes these workflows don’t just increase efficiency and speed

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0:25:08
it increases maintainability of your projects scalability of your projects just the overall quality in general so like I said you’re doing better work and you’re more equipped to Do that work because you have the support in the education that you need not just a tool guys Some of these tools are quite complicated quickly is quite a complicated builder oxygen Bricks okay, these are quite complicated builders. You can’t just here’s here’s a here’s a really advanced tool, have at it. That doesn’t help anybody. What we need is education and processes and workflows,

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0:25:44
step by step. What’s the best way to do this? What’s the best way to get from point A to point B? Oh, I’m stuck. Can you please jump in and help me? Yes, we’ve got a whole, Inner Circle has 1500 people in it. Automatic CSS community, thousands of people jumping in.

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0:25:57
Yeah, we can help you. I mean, you’re getting answers typically within minutes, right, in these communities. And everybody’s using the same tools and the same process and the same workflow and the same standard. It’s absolutely fantastic, right? So that’s really what you might raise your hand for,

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0:26:13
what you might say, I’m gonna give that a shot, okay? And if that’s you, then you email your receipt from Quickly and we give you the voucher and you could use it and you could jump in and you can join us, okay? That’s all I have to offer you. But I think it’s fantastic, because I do think there’s a tremendous amount of people, and I’m just basing this off feedback, right?

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0:26:35
That everything that we do is, you look at all my videos, you look at the Page Building 101 course, you’re like, yes, right? Of course. First of all, if I created tools, that would be a good way to market the tools.

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0:26:53
But I actually did that before I had any tools. The tools were created for the audience that I already had, and myself. That was the process here. So I was giving before I was ever asking. And I’m doing that because I truly do like to see people get better at their craft. And I truly do like to see beginners go from

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0:27:19
not being confident in these environments to being tremendously confident in these environments. And I do really, really, really love seeing people go from charging $1,000 for a website to $20,000 for a website. I fucking love to see that, right? That is real, meaningful work. Okay? And so that’s kind of the premise of everything that we do. The tools are there because they tremendously help you. Just like they

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0:27:46
were created for me, but for all of us, so that we could all do our work better. That’s what the tools were created for. They weren’t created as products. They were created as workflow and process enhancements, tremendously. So if I feel like if I bring more people into that environment those people get better. Their life gets better all around. Their work gets better, their money gets better, their life gets better. It’s great. So that’s all I can offer you. If you’re interested in that then come on in and give it a shot and if you’re not then you don’t have to. You can do whatever you want.

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0:28:27
You can do whatever you want. But like I said, I feel some semblance of responsibility because I’ve been saying, Quickly is the number two page builder for WordPress for months and months and months now. I’ve personally told, you know how many DMs I get? Like, Kevin, I’m on the fence. Like, I’ve seen all your Bricks videos,

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0:28:45
but I really, really, really wanna be in the Gutenberg environment. I’d really rather not be in a completely separate layer. And so I’ve just told these people, go quickly. Then do, go to quickly. Just person after person after person after person after person. Now it’s not everybody, not everybody wants to be

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0:29:02
in the Gutenberg environment. But for all the people who wanted to be in the Gutenberg environment, I told many, many, many, many of them, go to quickly. And then so it really fucking sucks to wake up and you’ve told people go over here and basically you didn’t realize that that was the edge of a cliff That that sucks

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0:29:19
So this is this was my idea That’s all that’s all I have. Okay. I do want to jump into chat here. I want to Answer any questions Q&A AMA? I will not go into detail on what I think happened with quickly that will be next week So we’re not going to do that in today’s Q&A, but you can ask any other questions, what you need to do, if you’re new to the stream,

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0:29:45
you don’t know the protocol, hashtag, hashtag Q or hashtag question, either one will work. You can drop that in the chat and I can sort that way. They’ll actually come up in my starred area here. So Q or question, and you can ask away If you have any thoughts, you can obviously put them into The chat as well. Let me go ahead and go down here

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0:30:09
Okay You can ask about other builders, too So if you are a person that’s you know on the fence about like, ah, do I go bricks? Do I go generate do I go oxygen? Do I go breakdance? Do I like where do I go? Where where would you recommend I go? We can have that conversation as well. Okay.

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0:30:30
What features were killer that should be considered for future

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0:30:34
builders components seem powerful to me. Components very powerful, which is already coming to bricks. I it’s the only builder I know of right now that has a components feature like that, except for Buildarius, but Buildarius is, it’s undergoing a lot of facelifting right now. And so I haven’t looked, I was actually told, I believe by the developers of Buildarius,

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0:31:03
like don’t look at it right now, like don’t go in there, wait until our UI update comes out and then you can go in there. And so I’m kind of just, that’s what I’m doing. I’m waiting for that to happen. So, there is GreenShift. I’m in talks with the developer of GreenShift for a potential automatic CSS integration there.

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0:31:24
So yeah, other features, that’s what you asked. Other feature, man, five hours of sleep is not helping. So, yes, components, SAS. Writing SAS, I think, is extremely important and until vanilla CSS has things like mix-ins and functions and Sass is very, very, very powerful to have in a page builder, and I think Quickly was the only one

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0:31:50
that had it that I know of. Off the top, what else?

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0:31:53
That’s pretty much it,

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0:31:54
aside from what is already available in bricks, right? Those were those are the big things. It’s like bricks did not have components But it will very soon and it didn’t have sass. Those are like the two standout things for me All right Is anyone else experiencing streaming issue on YouTube? It’s like in 90s again. Everything else works fine Yes, answer that person and see if we have streaming issues or there’s something else going on with his, maybe his internet. From a security standpoint, should we stop using code snippet plugins and use a child

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0:32:33
theme if we are only using a snippet plugin to organize our CSS and not PHP, JS, etc. Are we safe? I’m not a security expert, but from what I have gathered from, you know, talking to people people like Calvin and such and Patrick from GridPane. I do think that there is some risk in plugins like not when they just have CSS but when they have JavaScript when they have PHP all of this does open some doors and so I think they would answer I mean I could do a stream with them if you guys want a security stream I think Calvin would absolutely jump at the opportunity to

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0:33:09
come on here and discuss security. Patrick from GridPane would probably come on and talk security. So I think they would say though, yeah, you’re better off without those. And you know, if you package any integrations up as a plugin or you use a child theme for things or just have an integration that is CSS only and is not the JavaScript, PHP and everything else. Like, you’re probably gonna be better off that way. I wanna create a button that triggers a modal,

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0:33:42
like a frames modal, what should I do when it comes to accessibility? Major thing is you make it a button, an actual button, right? In web design, there are buttons and there are buttons. See, see how confusing this is for beginners? See how much fun we’re having? There’s buttons and there’s buttons.

1
0:34:01
Really what there are, there are links that look like buttons, and then there are actual buttons that also happen to look like buttons. So you want to not use a link, and that’s what, I would say the biggest thing that I see beginners doing is they add the button element, which is actually a link in a page builder, and then they use that to trigger the modal.

1
0:34:22
But a actual HTML button element, right? And let me pull up, I just realized I’ve been screen sharing the whole time, which is fine because that’s probably better than not screen sharing. But let’s go into pin here and we’ll just do this. So this is an actual button element, right? Okay, trigger modal, all right?

1
0:34:44
Now we have also an A, right? So you can do an A, href equals, and there’s your pound sign that a lot of people try to use because they’re like, oh, this isn’t gonna go anywhere, so I should use the pound sign. And then they’ll do something like class equals button. Okay, so here we are with that,

1
0:35:04
and we’ll say trigger modal, and then we’ll close that off, right? What is going, okay, there we go. All right, great, fantastic. Now, you’re like, obviously that A creates a link and not a button, but if you just style this class button to make it look like a button, you can make it look exactly like this other button

1
0:35:22
right here. And then nobody knows which one is which until they inspect the code. But in a page builder, when you add a button element, you are adding this one, not this one. There’s no page builder I know of that adds this one when you ask for a button. They all add this one.

1
0:35:41
Well, this is a navigational element. This says to the user, we are going somewhere, right? What this says is we are triggering something on page. On this page right here, we are triggering something, and that’s what a modal is. It’s an on-page event. And so you wanna use this, right? So what you need is a page builder that allows you to turn this into this.

1
0:36:02
You know, a page builder like Bricks allows you to, I cannot open, I don’t think it’s safe to open any installs of Bricks right now because Automatic CSS 3.0 Alpha 1 is probably sitting right there inside of it. So we can’t do much of that today. But yeah, you need a page builder that allows you to actually have a real button element. Bricks, thankfully, makes that super, super, super easy. But once you make it a button element, I mean, it’s gonna have focus,

1
0:36:31
it’s gonna announce the text inside. There’s really only some additional things that you have to do. If you put like an icon in here with no text, that would mean, okay, we need an ARIA label or we need hidden text or we need something like that to make it accessible. But this is the big thing right here.

1
0:36:45
You don’t wanna use a navigation element when you’re supposed to be using an on-page trigger element. Okay, let’s go back to, but that was a fantastic question. See, that’s the kind of stuff, this is what we saw for people on WDD Live. It’s like, they just got these little nuggets, they just need the answers,

1
0:37:00
they need to move on with their life, that’s what they can get. Okay, let’s see. Let me go up, up, up, back to where we were. Okay, questions are pouring in now. That was the one we just answered. Okay, here we are. Question. Gutenbergs. This is the answer and bridge between bricks and Gutenberg the missing jelly to bricks, peanut butter,

1
0:37:25
just yum. I don’t see a question mark at the end of that, Anthony, that looks like that just looked like an announcement. Anthony is making an announcement about Gutenbergs. Yeah, I do. I do. I’ve what I’ve done. I’ll just be honest with you. Have I opened it myself and looked at it? No, I haven’t had time I’m a little busy. I will very very very soon. What I did do is I watched mr Dave boys video about guten bricks and from that I was like that looks pretty fantastic. That’s pretty exciting. So Yeah, I think I think that’s great. I’m in the guten bricks Facebook group, helping with any automatic CSS integration issues. So I do think that that’s a fantastic add on.

1
0:38:08
Thoughts on future of Gutenberg, read GeneratePress stream yesterday and how will Gutenbricks fit into all of this? Well, I think that it’s, it’s an interesting stream. I don’t know that they discussed this yesterday, but I would love to have a Generate Press with Tom on FSE, because as far as I know, Generate is not in the FSE space, right? And so how are they navigating

1
0:38:32
and handling this transition over to FSE, and when will that take place, and what will that look like? Because there are gonna be a lot of people. I mean, the Gutenberg Project is, it’s a mess. It’s an absolute mess, right? And it creates problems like this, where people are like, okay, yeah,

1
0:38:51
what does going to the block editor mean? Well, it means two completely different things. I mean, you can go to the block editor with an FSC theme, or you can go to the block editor with a non FSC theme. And people are like, I want to be as close to native as possible. I want to be as close to core as possible. Well, I mean, if you’re using generate, that’s not very close now, is it? Because, you know, they’re not FSC. So is that a problem? Or is that not a problem?

1
0:39:14
I don’t know. But it’s a lot of confusion and we should not be creating this kind of confusion with products and an ecosystem like WordPress, as giant as they are, should not be creating this kind of confusion. I mean, this is, um, things are being done in the wrong order. They’re being done with just like, there’s things that we don’t need being given to us and the things that we need are being kept from us and it’s just an absolute mess. So I don’t know.

1
0:39:38
I don’t know. It’s a it’s a it’s the fucking Wild West in Gutenberg land right now in WordPress in general, I guess. So I don’t really I would like to hear Tom’s thoughts on that. See, see what he thinks. What is the difference between a component and a template specifically in bricks if that helps answer the question? Well, I mean, a component is, it’s the idea of partially syncing things, right?

1
0:40:04
A template is, it’s kind of hard to explain. A template syncs the style and the content all at once, but if you need to change the content, but keep the style, keep management of the style, but change the content, you have to unlink the template. Well, the problem is with most page builders and environments is once you unlink the template, you now no longer have the control over the styling you can only

1
0:40:27
change the content and the styling is now independent from the other instances of the thing. What a component does is it maintains the connection in design and HTML and any JavaScript or PHP that might be involved while allowing the content to be changed on an instance by instance basis. So it’s very powerful and it is a very, very important thing to have. I’ve been advocating for it for many, many, many, many, many, many months. But it is also complicated behind the scenes. So, you know, it’s taking bricks a while to get it out here. And I believe it took quickly a while to get it out.

1
0:41:07
But it is coming. And I mean, going forwards, I would not be using a page builder that or an environment that does not offer true component functionality, it’s too important. And Gutenberg thankfully actually does in their partially sync patterns, which they’re now renaming to something else. I can’t even remember the name. And there’s yet another problem with Gutenberg.

1
0:41:28
The fucking names change all the time. The icons change all the time. The workflow changes all the time. Everything’s just constantly changing. It’s hard to keep up and it’s annoying. And on top of that, the UX sucks. So it’s just really hard. It’s really, it’s like a really ugly baby

1
0:41:43
that you’re like, man, I really just like, you know, yeah, you are my baby. I just wish you were a little prettier or something. I don’t know. It’s just like, what is this thing? I wanna like it, but every time I like try to like it, I’m like, fuck, I still don’t like it that much.

2
0:41:58
Okay.

1
0:41:59
Can you give your, okay. Can you give your thoughts on the alpha release of GenerateBlocks after watching the Kyle Tom interview yesterday? I think the update is fantastic. As I said in the comments of that live stream, I think calling classes or really what amount of selectors global styles is insanely confusing. We already have something called global styles and it’s not classes and selectors. Naming things is hard.

1
0:42:30
This is the number one thing you’re going to learn in web design, naming things is hard. And then that’s why that’s actually guys, that’s where the whole birth of tailwind came from this literally, literally, they were they were like naming things is too hard. Let’s make tailwind. And that’s what they did. But it turns out you still have to name everything in tailwind. So like, because you have to use components, and then you have to name the components. Okay, anyway, we don’t have to

1
0:42:51
turn this into a tailwind debate. But yes, naming things is hard. I don’t agree with that name. I do agree with the direction that they’ve gone with that class system. Like bringing a… I would not personally use generate even though I integrated automatic CSS with generate press and generate blocks. I would not personally use it without a class first workflow. I don’t use anything that doesn’t have a class first workflow. So once they bring that, I mean, that is truly a game changer for generate press and generate blocks users. It’s a fantastic update.

1
0:43:22
It’s a great thing to see. I also liked a lot of what I heard. For example, you can put compound selectors in. You don’t have to just make a class. Now, they have the fucking training wheels on it right now. So anything you type in that box automatically puts a dot and turns it into a class. Then you have to do all of your targeting based on a class. I

1
0:43:41
Don’t like training wheels. I don’t think anybody needs training wheels I don’t think that we’re not building fucking rockets here or doing a brain surgery, right? We can just let people have the selectors interface if I can write a selector in CSS with my fucking keyboard like this There is not any reason why I cannot write that in a page builder. Just let me do not exactly that, but you get the point, right? Whatever I write as a selector in a style sheet, I should be able to write in a page.

1
0:44:12
This has been a tremendous and fundamental limitation of page builders, even class first page builders, since the dawn of page builders, okay? They don’t let you write any selector that you want. It’s a tremendous limitation. So half your work has to be done in the page builder and half your work has to be done in the style sheet if you’re doing anything,

1
0:44:32
anything remotely beyond the basics. And if you care at all about scalability and maintainability, you have to write these things in the style sheet because you can’t do it with the page builder interface. So what I would like to see generate, are they the first? I don’t know,

1
0:44:46
because you can’t even do this in Bricks. Are they the first to be like, you know what, we’ve taken the training wheels off this bitch. Like you could just you can do whatever you want with this selector situation right here. Now I do also think there’s going to be an organizational issue and maybe this is why page builders have been like, well you can’t just write any selector because we don’t know yet how to even keep that organized for you to where this doesn’t become an absolute mess where you’re just you don’t know where styles are coming from or how to manage them or anything else.

1
0:45:14
That could be a legitimate thing. I’ve been thinking about this kind of stuff as well. It’s not an easy problem to solve. Um, but at the same time, I don’t think that, you know, I don’t think training wheels is the way to go and forcing people into like, at least in generate, you can do a, you know, a compound selector. Um, whereas in bricks, you’re just stuck with a class. That’s it.

1
0:45:33
You can add a class, you can have more than one class, but that’s the extent of it. Nothing beyond that. And it’s really frustrating, it’s really, really limiting. So there’s a lot to like, it’s very promising. I like Tom’s philosophy, I like the direction. And I said this, and you could put me on the record as this. If core Gutenberg was Generate, I would have zero issues with it whatsoever. You see, it, okay, let’s break this down to like actual philosophy here of like what is going on, what is going on with core.

1
0:46:06
That monstrosity is not needed or wanted really by anybody and anybody that says they actually want that, they’ve swallowed it, okay? I don’t legitimately think anybody has ever just fucking fallen in love with like the block editor, okay? Everybody just choked it down, everybody who likes it and advocates for it, at some point choked it down and then wiped off their mouth and then just started talking great about it. But we all know you choked it down, okay?

1
0:46:46
All right, so Generate comes in with ultra clean blocks. Like, hey, you don’t need all this fancy bullshit. And I even go after bricks for this. What is this 48 elements that nobody ever should use? In fact, I was starting to do a video about that. There’s at least 20 elements in bricks and every page builder, but bricks too, that you should never touch, that you should never use.

1
0:47:15
In fact, using them puts you at a tremendous risk for scalability, on the scalability and maintainability and likely the accessibility side of things. You should just, you should turn them off, you should remove them, whatever. If you watch me build websites, it doesn’t matter if it’s an Oxygen or Bricks, I use the same five elements over and over and over again.

1
0:47:36
Div, div, div, div, block, block, block, block, button, button, button, heading, heading, heading, text, text, text, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again. That is all you really need. Until you need JavaScript components, like modals and toggles and all that, then you bring those in, and that’s fine, right?

1
0:47:53
But a fucking icon box, shape divider, this, all this cute chintzy bullshit, that by the way, has tremendous limitations. I should really do the video, I should really do the video. Because once you use those elements, your whole site is screwed. Your whole site is screwed. When something has to be added to one of those elements,

1
0:48:11
no, can’t do that, Jack. So you got to go back and remove all of those and replace them the way they should have been done in the first place. That is terrible. Thank God, Generate was like, you don’t need any of that chintzy bullshit. We’re going to give you the divs and the blocks

1
0:48:25
and the headings and this is all you need. Now do your job, okay? And you can do your job and it’s clean output, it’s clean blocks, clean code output. It was just missing, it was just missing the class first workflow. That’s all it was missing really, and a better query loop, okay?

1
0:48:42
They need a better query loop and they need the class first workflow. Now, I mean, we are a giant leap forward. And I’ll just go back to the premise, if Core Gutenberg was Generate, WordPress would be in a fantastic place, a fantastic place. Okay.

2
0:49:02
All right, the Generate people all got their rocks off,

1
0:49:04
now we can move on. Let’s see. Brent, we answered that question, okay. My only question is if we can get some official love for Pine Grow or if not why? Pine Grow is not a page builder. It’s not a, it’s a completely different workflow situation tool that you would have to adopt

1
0:49:28
and be like I am going to never build websites the way I’ve ever built them before. We’re just gonna go off into that whole new paradigm. And if that’s what you want to do, I mean, go follow Adam Lowe on YouTube and watch his videos and go off into that workflow and off into that land. Will you be happier there? I doubt it. But you will spend a lot of time learning it. That is for sure. Kind of like tailwinds. Kind of like

1
0:49:53
tailwinds. Let’s see. What are components and SAS? Gosh, sorry, excuse me. Okay, well, components we already talked about. SAS, we don’t know what SAS is, right? So you can do this, I mean, CodePen’s a great place to play around, but you turn on a little, SAS is a pre-processor basically, it’s like a very light,

1
0:50:17
you can think of it as like a ultra, ultra light kind of CSS programming language almost, like you can do loops and logic and ifs and thens and all this other stuff, right? The thing is, is because it’s pre-processed, right, it’s never been really baked natively into much of anything. Like you go to Webflow, pretty sure you can’t write SAS and Webflow, even though you can write vanilla CSS. And so it requires that extra preprocessing step, but it’s tremendously powerful. Now, for automatic CSS users, I mean,

1
0:50:53
maybe, maybe you, maybe you can. Maybe you can do this, you know, very soon. But anyway, so, with that said, we can do something like, you can do like mixins and tests, which are like recipes, okay? So let’s say you had some complicated ass, like all of your button, like a button might have, it’s got global padding and borders

1
0:51:14
and it has border radiuses and it has hover states and it’s got all this other stuff. You could do like an at mix in button and then you could come down here and you could put all those styles, right? I’m not gonna actually list them all out and all that. But then when you’re creating a button, like button custom or something,

1
0:51:34
and you’re like, all right, I want to do something like, I want to do a linear gradient here, but then what I really want after I do this linear gradient situation is I want all my default button styles. I just bring those in, bring those in, and that’s where you can do add include button,

1
0:51:53
and then bang, it’s done. It pulls all those styles in. So that’s kind of like what a mixin is. And then you have loops, and you have maps, and you can do a bunch of stuff. A lot of it is like, I’ve, all automatic CSS is written in SAS. Cause if you were trying to do anything framework wise

1
0:52:09
with vanilla CSS, you’ve lost your absolute mind. It’s just a really, really, really powerful thing. Now, what I will say is loops, not loops, excuse me, mix-ins and I believe functions are coming to vanilla CSS. I don’t know how long it’s going to take, but I do know that it’s been officially proposed. Just like nesting. The other thing with SAS is you could nest selectors,

1
0:52:32
which is fantastic for BIM, right? Let’s say you have a card, and in that card you have a heading, right? So you can do at, sorry, not at, you can do a heading like this, and then you could come down here and you could do the button, and then let me put our brackets just for that.

1
0:52:50
All right, then you could come down here and you could do our description, right? And so, it’s almost like you’re writing CSS in like a component form, right? Because it’s all attached to the same, it’s all scoped to the same place. Now, I’m going to do, there’s another feature coming to CSS called scope.

1
0:53:10
And I’m actually gonna do a video on that probably as soon as my voice clears up. It was already on my agenda to do, but I’m really excited about scope. I’m really, really, really excited about scope. I’m really excited about layers and I’m really excited about the nesting. You can now do this in vanilla CSS right here.

1
0:53:28
You can do this exact nesting in vanilla. No, I’m sorry. This is what happens when you’re on five hours of sleep. It’s this right here. It’s, I don’t know, five hours of sleep and being sick is not helping the situation. So this is what you would do. Now, the only difference in SAS

1
0:53:44
is you actually don’t need this in SAS, right? You can just put that in, but you do need that in, it’s hard to look at my keyboard while I’m looking through this microphone. You do need that all the time in Vanilla. And then whether you put a space or not determines whether it’s actually attached to the selector or not attached to the selector. But that’s you could do this in vanilla CS it’s just not let’s

1
0:54:07
let’s go see can I use can I use nesting it’s almost there guys it’s almost there like it’s supported if you’re chrome it’s gonna work edge it’s gonna work Safari is gonna work Firefox is gonna work but overall adoption is not I like to see these things over like 92 93 percent somewhere in that area before you really, really, really start using them. But if you wanted to play with it and be like, hold on, how does this nesting thing work? If you just want to play with it,

1
0:54:33
it’ll work right now in Chrome. Like you just go in Chrome, in CodePen and just start nesting shit. Even if you have a SAS turned off, you just keep the none to pre-process, right? So that would work right there in vanilla CSS. That’s coming, that’s fantastic. So only SAS had that previously.

1
0:54:50
And now imagine vanilla CSS with mixins and functions. Then, then, then imagine if we could have maybe maps. I don’t even know if that’s possible. And then loops, that would be fantastic as well. Okay, so that’s, yeah, that’s all. Needs to be in a page builder in my opinion. Because once people see the magic of SAS happening and what you can do with it.

4
0:55:14
People are like, why do,

1
0:55:15
why has nobody given that to us yet? That’s exactly my thought. How do we query ACF? The voice is really starting to go at this point. So we’ll just do a few more questions then we got to get out of here. How do we query ACF gallery images using a media query and bricks?

1
0:55:30
I want to efficiently retrieve images attached to a custom post and display them on the custom post type template, thanks. Okay, how do we query ACF gallery images using a media query in media, using a media query in Brics? I don’t think that’s what you mean. I think you mean a query loop, perhaps in Brics,

1
0:55:54
that might be what you mean. To efficiently retrieve images attached to a custom post and display them on the, okay. It should be fairly straightforward and simple. So that gallery should just come up as an option in the Brics query loop. Again, it’s not safe for me to open Brics right now because of 3.0 alpha being worked on.

1
0:56:13
And I don’t even know what branches have it and what don’t. And then I have to open VS Code. It’s just a whole situation. So can’t go there on this particular stream. But what I would imagine is you add the custom field, the gallery ACF field to a post, right? And then when you go make your query loop and bricks, and then when you’re choosing the dynamic data,

1
0:56:34
it’s going to be an option for you in the dynamic data. Now whether you have to do that, probably an image, put an image in the content. Yeah, I have to play with it a little bit.

3
0:56:45
What I,

1
0:56:45
cause what I normally do is I put all my photos in a happy files gallery and then I query straight from the happy files gallery. And I find that that’s a lot better because I can manage globally media rather than having to go to an individual post. But if there’s some reason it has to be on an individual post, then you would obviously want to do it that way.

1
0:57:06
But it would be a great question for the next WDD Live where I actually have my environment ready to go and we can just play around with it and make it happen.

2
0:57:13
Anyone know what’s next for Bricks Builder itself?

1
0:57:15
Anything major for 2.0 or just more incremental improvements? I know they’re working very heavily, very heavily on components. Now, whether those are gonna come out before other things, I don’t know how long it’s gonna take. I expect to see, we saw a teaser for components a while back, a while back, and we have not seen anything else since.

1
0:57:41
I would think that we’re going to see at least a couple more teasers perhaps before anything actually gets released. If there was just a release out of the blue for components before we see anything else about them, I would be very surprised. So I would expect that we’re going to see another teaser of some sort coming in before we actually get a release on it. So if we go to the Bricks changelog, bricksbuilder.io, not changelog, where do they put it?

1
0:58:07
There’s actually two different places that they have this. Roadmap, I think there’s two roadmaps. There’s like this one and then there’s a different one. So they had a code element dynamic data support. That’s gonna be really good. Global components, there you go. Element star rating, okay, the WooCommerce people will be happy.

1
0:58:27
Search criteria, okay. Back to this poor back to top button has just been lingering and it’s so useless. Password protect entire site, I don’t know why that’s all that useful. So the only thing I’m excited about on here really is global components. And that just needs to happen now

1
0:58:50
If you go to gary.co and you go to the blog I have an article that I would recommend that you read some good ideas in here about what should be coming to bricks five killer bricks builder features we need to see in 2024 and So obviously a global class and variable manager. We got the global class manager. Here’s the other thing guys Fuck. What? What is this like? No support for variables in any page builder. Not even quickly, not even quickly.

1
0:59:22
No support for variables, like no love for, do you know how much we do with variables? If you’re not using variables like heavily, heavily, then I would say you’re doing something wrong. Partially synced patterns, that’s global components. And then we have multi-select. Shout out to Maxime, Advanced Themer. You know, they do something great.

1
0:59:46
You gotta show them love. The man brought multi-select. So if you want multi-select, you can get that in an add-on right now. I really wanted to say, it should be a native feature. It should be, it’s one of those things that like, there’s no reason if Divi has it, dog, like if Divi has it, come on now.

1
1:00:04
You know, come on, come on now. Let’s not be behind Divi, okay? Yeah, give us the multi-select, please. External API support for query loops, man. Read about this, read about this, right? This is next level shit right here. And then unified canvas and Skyview. I really think this is next level

1
1:00:24
in terms of workflow efficiency as well. So yeah, just go read that article, it’s fun, it’s exciting, it’ll get you hyped up, it’ll get you motivated to request some of these things.

2
1:00:34
What are your thoughts between NorthCommerce and SureCart?

1
1:00:37
Well, I mean, there’s no decision to make right now. Sure, if you need a actual viable system that’s pretty fantastic, SureCart is it right now. NorthCommerce is not a viable option at this point in time, but it may be very, very, very soon. So I’m keeping my eye on it. And we’ll talk about that, cross that bridge when we get there, I guess is the saying. Do you regularly use at supports in real life build? Seems like a magic bullet for fallbacks. We use them in automatic CSS, but no, I don’t hardly ever use them in real, like actual workflow of building a site. No, but I do rely on a framework that has those,

1
1:01:17
which is another benefit of the framework, right? Let’s see, what do you think about the interview between Kyle and Tom? Okay, we already talked about that. You can go back and rewind, back to top still there. What is the best way to learn the renaming stuff in Bricks? It seems like UI adjustments are IDs and you convert those to classes

1
1:01:36
and then there is some renaming that has to happen somehow. Okay, I’m trying to decipher this question. What is the best way to learn the renaming stuff in Bricks? I don’t, I’m really not sure what you’re talking about exactly. Like you can name things in the structure panel. You can rename IDs. You can rename classes. There’s situations where you want to rename the class versus not rename the class. There’s a situation where if you don’t have automatic CSS, if

1
1:02:04
you need a unique version of the class, you can’t just rename it. You actually have to create a new one, copy styles over and delete the old one, but with automatic CSS you don’t have to do that. So, ah man, there’s… I need more details. That’s the long way of saying I can’t even begin to answer that question until I have way more details on what you’re actually asking. Do you think you’ll be integrating ACSS with the new global style system coming to generate blocks? 100% Yes, they do need to call it selectors, though. That’s what I would name it. That’s what it should be named. That’s what they are.

1
1:02:36
They are selectors. So let’s push for that everybody. Sorry, Tom. Sorry, Tom, but you’re gonna get some emails. Okay, let’s all email Tom and politely say, Tom, please, please, my man, don’t call this global styles, please call the selectors. And then we’ll all be happy because global styles are something else entirely. And we don’t want everybody to be confused, right? Okay.

1
1:02:59
But yes, we will support that system in generate for sure. A hundred percent. Like I said, I’m glad it’s there. All of the automatic CSS classes will be preloaded into that system. And then we’ve got logic in place as of 2.8, where if you turn classes off in the framework, they no longer show up in the auto-suggest in the builder.

1
1:03:19
That’s fantastic, right? Okay, where was that question? One of my clients just called and he was in a conference with other similar businesses and they group bought a calculator, which they want to put into their website in iFrame. How do I stop this? Oh man, they group bought a calculator.

1
1:03:41
Is it one of those things where I can imagine it’s like, like they’re a mortgage lender and they’re like, let’s put a mortgage lending calculator on our way. And so they buy, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Is that like remotely close? Is it something like that? I don’t know. Is it something you could build with like WS form?

1
1:03:57
I’ve built a tremendous amount of calculators with WS form. In fact, if you want to see my clamp calculator, that was built with WS form. So that would be the first thing is like, can I build it? Calculator. No, see, this is what, this is my problem earlier. My brain is like, let’s go to the clamp calculator

1
1:04:15
and then I’m just writing like calc for some reason. Okay, this sickness is not, it’s not great. Clamp calculator, there we go. Brain fog, I think that’s what they call it, right? Brain fog, that’s what we’re dealing with right now. So this whole situation right here, where you put in your root font size, you can choose your root font size,

1
1:04:32
and then you say my, basically the content width of your website. And then you say, all right, I want, maybe when we were doing a heading, right? Now you don’t have to do any of this in Automatic CSS, it’s all done for you. But if you’re not used, this is when I made page building 101,

1
1:04:46
and I was like, okay, if you’re not gonna use Automatic CSS, you have to make all these manual clamp functions, which you would never wanna manage. I mean, you would never wanna be in this situation without automatic CSS. But should you need some random clamp function, you could say like the minimum is gonna be four rem,

1
1:05:03
the maximum is gonna be eight rem, look at that, it calculates in real time, you just copy it, you go, there’s your clamp function, you’re good to go. That’s WSForm, right there, super simple. WSForm is fantastic. So maybe you can just build whatever calculator they need and you can build some quite advanced calculators with WS form. Yeah, build it for them and get paid to build it for them.

1
1:05:26
A complex form situation like that, thousands of dollars easily by itself. Ask them how much they paid for that group solution, whatever you were trying to talk about. If they paid thousands to license that or something, I don’t know what the situation is. You could offer to build it for them for less, if it makes sense, if it makes sense. But if they’re a pain in the ass,

1
1:05:48
what I would recommend is you pop it in the iFrame, publish it and then do away with them. Just be like, you guys are a pain in the ass. And go do work for another client, different client. Promise you stop answering our questions and make yourself a hot cup of tea or something. Yes, okay. I will thank you red panda Thank you for looking out. I appreciate it Thoughts on Drupal compared to WordPress. No, I no thoughts

1
1:06:11
I’ve never used it never gone anywhere near it wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole I am I am you know as critical as I am about things like the Gutenberg environment. I’m a 100,000% WordPress, so I’m not entertained by Webflow. I’m not and primarily because, you know, I, I would never go to Webflow, never go to any other platform that I don’t like own my my shit, right? That is the number one thing is like build on land you own. Don’t go build on land that you don’t own. And so I think people who are on Webflow or even Shopify, I almost said Spotify. That’s how much brain fog I have.

1
1:06:52
I was like, oh, it’s on Spotify. Just streaming. So yeah, I think WordPress, the open source nature is just absolutely fantastic. And that’s the number one selling point. And that’s by a mile. So any other shit we have to put up with is fine because I do love the overall concept

1
1:07:13
and the overall environment. And I’ve been on it since 2005. So I know it like the back of my hand. And yeah, I don’t have any plans to look at anything else. Okay, let’s go ahead and get out of here. I’m sorry for, I was only reading questions. I do not, there’s 500 comments or something. Yeah, 449.

1
1:07:33
So I have not gone through and actually read comments. I don’t know what everybody’s reaction has been to anything that we’ve talked about. I will try to go catch up on some of this, but I am going to go get a little cup of tea or something and just try to relax a little bit. I will be back very, very, very soon though. Automatic CSS 3.0 Alpha 1 is in the hands

1
1:07:56
of real, live human beings, and it will not be long before the beta is publicly available. And I will just double down and say that I truly believe once you’ve interacted with a framework in this fashion you will not want a different experience like that that is it is it changes well I hate using that term. It changes the game! Okay but it actually fucking does it actually does. So it’s just really fun, and it’s really fantastic

1
1:08:26
But I love you guys, and I’m just I’m talking about it because I’m so excited I’m like if I could give it to you right now. I would a hundred percent do that I just I can’t it’s just the alpha group has to do the alpha group things And then we’ll be in beta and then you can have your hands on it But I really truly cannot wait for you guys to get your hand on this thing But I really truly cannot wait for you guys to get your hand on this thing Love you. I’m out peace