Yo, what is up everybody? Welcome back. Man, is this the first time back after the seven hour live stream? I think it may be. I don’t know. I can’t keep track of anything at this point. There’s a lot of stuff going on. But what I can promise you is this particular live stream is going to be insanely valuable for you. Insanely valuable. This is one you cannot afford to skip this one. You cannot afford to leave early in this one. You simply cannot. I’m talking about actual financial outcomes. You cannot afford to not watch this episode right here.
Now, for those of you who are trying to get into the green room, the green room for this special episode of Digital Agency Table Talk is currently not open. I may open the green room at some point after we get through our main content here. I want to make sure that we are able to, without any distractions, all have a conversation about what we need to talk about as we head into 2023. The thing is, I don’t know about you, but for me, December is all about planning. December is not about client work. December, all projects that I get in December have a start date of January. I don’t really, we’re pretty much, we’ve closed out our projects by the end of November. I currently have two projects that made their way into December, but my team is buttoning those up right now. I’m going to get those launched and then we’re done. We don’t have any client work to worry about through the month of December. It’s all about planning, it’s all about focusing on some of the other stuff that I’ve got going on.
It’s about personal rest, okay? We’re about to, we’re about to go on a little VK. So just December is like, wind down month and get ready to kick ass and take names in 2023. I don’t know if that’s how you do things, that’s how I tend to do things. If you are, well, let me just say this. First thing I want to give a shout out to the Inner Circle because we just crossed a thousand members in the Inner Circle. That was one of my goals for 2022 was to get to a thousand active members inside of the Inner Circle and we achieved that. But the thing is, is that as a content creator, slash YouTuber, slash coach, slash mentor, slash whatever you want to call me, it doesn’t really matter to me. You can call me other names if you want to. Plenty of you do, call me other names, and that’s fine. But as somebody in that position, when I’m thinking about, okay, I’ve got like, you know, a thousand plus freelancers and digital agency owners that hopefully I can make an impact in their business, right?
A real impact in their business. Now, when I do trainings on like best practices and oxygen and bricks and accessibility and automatic CSS and frames and just CSS and general, all this other stuff that we often do on this channel, when somebody comes to me and they’re like, man, Kevin, you’ve really leveled up my skills in those areas. I feel good. That’s fine. That’s all great. But it doesn’t really get me all that excited. It’s fun. It’s fantastic. But it doesn’t really get me all that excited. What does get me excited is when people come to me and they say, Kevin, I’ve been doing websites for like $1,500 for like $2,500 and I’ve been watching your trainings. I’ve been in the inner circle.
I started using your proposal template. I started mimicking your pricing a little bit more and your pricing philosophy and I’ve put systems into place. I’ve put your process into place. I’ve done a lot of things that take steps and actually I just wanted to let you know. I just closed a project at $10,000. I just closed a project at $15,000. These are numbers that they were not even fathoming before and now they’re hitting those numbers and the reality is that that actually changes people’s lives and that’s what gets me excited. So, yeah, you can best practices all day for development. That’s fun. That’s great. But actually changing people’s lives and businesses, that’s really what I’m after. So, we’ve got 1,000 plus people in the inner circle, we’ve got 1,000 subscribed here on YouTube and as 2023 approaches, anytime it’s a new year, I tend to get a little like antsy.
I’m like, oh man, because I want everybody to crush it next year. That’s always my thing. Like, back in 2021, I wanted everybody to crush it in 2022 and a lot of people did. A lot of people dramatically changed their outcomes in 2022 versus 2021. And I want to do the same thing again. And so, here we are in a planning month getting ready for 2023 and I want everybody to crush in 2023. There’s plenty of work for all of us. We can all crush it at higher prices. We can fundamentally transform a lot of businesses in 2023 and it’s not. When you guys charge more, it doesn’t take a dollar out of my pocket. When your competitors charge more, it doesn’t take a dollar out of your pocket. You’ve got to stop seeing things like that. You really want to see it as the industry in general, okay? There are industries where everybody raised to the bottom.
And now that industry, pricing in general across that industry is at the bottom. Then there are industries that raise to the top. And in those industries, prices are high and the value is high. And there’s a lot of people making a lot of money. And web design, some people are trying to raise to the bottom. And people are trying to raise to the top. There’s a push and pull, okay? And it’s like a most industry. But what we definitely don’t want to do is have everybody racing to the bottom. We want more people racing to the top. And we’re going to talk today about skills, how you can actually, because this isn’t just going to be about razor prices, okay? I’m going to walk you through a series of exercises. One of these exercises is going to be very eye-opening as it relates to the hourly rate that you charge.
We’re going to talk about your average project price. We’re going to do another exercise that demonstrates how you are dramatically undercharging for your projects. These are going to be very, very bad. We’re going to go through these together. I’ve got spreadsheets. I’ve got interactive exercises. They’re all going to do together. And you guys are going to participate. Instead of being live on the show today, you’re going to participate in the chat. You’re going to help me out. You need to have your fingers ready on the keyboard with some responses. And we’re going to go through this stuff together. There’s going to be very, very eye-opening. And my goal is by the end of this, I want you to have a dramatic mindset shift as it relates to how you need to be approaching your projects in 2023.
Specifically, I’ve got really like three things for you to focus on. And we’re going to get to those. But before we dive in, I want you to drop a note in the chat. Let me know how you’re doing today. I see Chris is here, Amanda’s here, Justin’s here, Michael’s here. I can’t make it live, but I’ll be sure to watch the recording 2023 has to be a good year says Michael. Well, it absolutely will be. You watch this recording. And I guarantee 2023 is going to be better than 2022. Looking forward to this table talk, because I need to get out of the cheap, I need the money, money website built. Yes, cheap, I need the money website built. That is Jeff right there. We’ll elevate some of these comments onto the screen.
We’ve got Joanna here, Nico greeting from Finland. Okay, I don’t know. Before we really dive in here, tell me your general feeling about your pricing in 2022, the money you made in 2022. Do you feel comfortable? Do you feel uncomfortable with how things went in 2022? Do you see a lot of room for improvement in 2020? What are your general feelings? How did 2022 go for you? And I’m going to look at these comments. Again, I’ll elevate them up on the screen. Justin says Kevin is about to drop some knowledge on us. Can’t wait. Yes, that is about to happen. All right.
Let’s see. It’s looking for another good comment here. Look at this. Philip says, worked out our proposal template with the help of the inner circle resources. Today we got our biggest project approved. Okay. Excellent. What I’m going to do is we got to see comments like this. You got to plug. You got to put up the actual link right here. All right. So here we go. Let’s look for more. What are people saying? We got a lot of people here.
Ooh, we’re over a hundred. That’s fantastic. I love it. Okay. People here to get their bag. That’s what I’m saying. Let’s see. A freelancing is super busy. I have a whole December booked to the brim. Okay. Fantastic. It could be fantastic. I don’t know. If you’re booked at the wrong prices, that could be a bad thing. If you’re booked at the right prices, that’s can be phenomenal.
So we need a little bit more context in that comment here. All right. I like the positivity here. 2023 will be a great year. Dave says he’s in a small market. He needs to increase his prices. Do I have to get out of my local area? Maybe. No. The good thing about the internet and what we do is you don’t have to be in a local area, right? You’re everywhere. Minimum monthly recurring project price is $2,500. You’re all happy with that. Okay.
We’ll see if you’re happy after we go through our exercises today. You might feel a little lacking, a little sad. I don’t know. We’ll see. Okay. 2021 versus 2022. Income increased by 200%. That is fantastic. I love that. Let’s see. I feel like I have two routes in 2023. Lower project prices a bit to get more monthly recurring plans or raise prices to get higher project fees or both. Okay. A lot of people say that there are 2022 as their best year ever so far.
It was our best year ever so far. I think there was a nice upswing back from the COVID times, right? So that definitely helps. Okay. I feel confident charging 5,000 but still working on improving my sales calls. All right, two low prices in 2022 will change it next year. Okay. Basically what I’ve said is if you are, if your projects average $5,000 or less on average, this is like a mandatory watch episode for you. Everybody’s going to get, no matter what prices you’re at, you’re going to get value out of this. But if you’re 5,000 or less project price on average, this is like a mandatory. You cannot afford to not watch this. All right. And it’s 100% free.
I’ve got the inner circle link up here, but this is free content that is available for everybody. If you want to go deeper on certain things, you know, the inner circle is always available to you, but it’s been available to you for years now. It’s, you know what it is. You know where to get it. All right. Let’s go over some numbers from my situation for 2022. And I’m not going to give you guys like income numbers and all this other stuff because that doesn’t really matter all that much. The matters is some of the more granular things, okay? So first off, my project minimum, what is my, the minimum amount that I will take a project at? Now I’m not like a, we’re not like a snobby agency where we’re like, ew, you don’t have $50,000.
We’re not working with you, okay? I love working with startups. I love working with solo pernoors. I love working with people who are trying to get a business off the ground and they have a fantastic idea, but they don’t really know how to execute and they need to get their marketing straight and they need to get their messaging straight. Like I love working with those kinds of people. I also love working with big businesses. I love working with big established profitable businesses who have a lot of money to invest, love working with them. I like both ends of the spectrum and I have not positioned my agency to target a specific niche. I have not targeted my agency or organized my agency to target a specific size of business. I have, I have tailored my agency to target the types of businesses that I like working with.
Period. End of story. Why I do all of the consulting on the projects. I do the UX on almost all the projects. I do the copy strategy on almost all like the narrative, the messaging strategy on almost all of the projects that we take in. In order for me to do that, I have to really like the kinds of businesses that I’m working with. We do only take service-based businesses. We don’t do any e-commerce work whatsoever because that’s a completely different set of skills for your entire team. It’s very hard. We just talked about this in a mastermind. It’s very hard to manage e-com projects and service-based business websites in the same agency model because the skills don’t translate across from one project to another.
It makes it very disorganized and very difficult to run your agency that way. If you’re doing that, I mean, if you like doing that, I don’t know more power to you, but I always advise people not to do that. You want to choose. You want to go all in on e-commerce or do you want to go all in on service-based businesses. That’s kind of your option there. I work with small businesses and large businesses. I work with businesses across many different industries and niches. The other thing is the reason I don’t niche down is because my brain being the company consultant and a marketer at heart and a messaging person, I really like solving new challenges. People ask me this all the time and I’ll answer the question right here. They ask me about should I niche down? To me, there’s financial and systems advantages to niching down. There are soul-crushing disadvantages to niching down as well. My thing is like, look, if you understand the financial and systems advantages to niching down and the fact that those advantages don’t exist so much when you don’t niche down, it’s important to understand those things.
The most important thing by far, and this is like 10X the importance of what I just said, is if you are creative at heart, if you like to solve challenges and problems, if you like to have new things to work on, and you just pick a niche and that’s all you guys do, I almost guarantee you it’s going to absolutely crush your soul. I made a decision long ago, that is not me, I don’t do that, I will take whatever negative financial impact, it’s not about the money, it’s not always about the money, right? You’ve got to like your job, you’ve got to love your business, you’ve got to like working in your business, you’ve got to like working on your business, and if you position yourself in such a way that you hate it, and every day you wake up, you’re like, oh my God, not another project in this freaking industry, I can’t take it anymore, like if that’s gets to be where you’re at, you lost. It doesn’t matter how much money you make, how much recurring income you have, you lost. And by the way, this is a kind of a knock on the website as a service model as well. A lot of people go towards the website as a service model because they’re like recurring revenue, a lot of recurring revenue, but their force is you heard Jonathan talk about on here, your force to take on a specific kind of business, a specific kind of client, generally a client that doesn’t want to invest a lot of money, generally a client that doesn’t really want you to solve a lot of their problems.
They just want a brochure website up on the internet, push some pixels around, and we’re going to talk a lot about being a pixel pusher today versus being a consultant. We’re going to get, that has to be a real conversation in the back of your mind at all times if you want to work in this industry. Are you a pixel pusher or are you a consultant? And a lot of people that do the website as a service model, you know what they are? They’re glorified pixel pushers for low output businesses. That’s what they are. They get a lot of recurring revenue and over time you can build up a lot of recurring revenue, but again, if you look at your business and you’re like, I don’t feel like I’m making an impact, I don’t feel like I’m valuable, really valuable to my clients. I’m not solving complex problems. I’m not adding a lot of money to their bottom line. I’m not helping them hire more employees to feed more families. This goes all the way down the chain of the impact that you can have doing the kind of work that we do.
And if you’re not making that kind of an impact because you choose the website as a service model because it’s recurring revenue and you can really build up your, and you don’t have to do a lot of work and you can templatize the, what did we get into all this for? I just posted this in the inner circle. Did you get in here to become a web design factory? Right? I told my story about how I used to own a martial arts studio a long time ago. Was a martial arts instructor for almost 15 years, okay? And the reason I got out of the industry is because that industry started racing to the bottom. That industry started selling belts. That industry stopped caring about quality and impact. That industry started caring only about the next dollar. And all of the martial arts studios became a, not all of them in every, like, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
I still do that. I still love it. It’s still legit. It’s one of the only legit ones left. Everything else is become a factory, okay? And it just turns out belts, turns out black belts, turns out, you know, whatever. And so, is that, you know, I see web design as a service in that regard almost. It’s like, well, we’re just going with the factory model now. But I went out really caring about, you know, impact and really solving business challenges and bespoke things and customization and, you know, tailoring what we do to the goals that a business has. So that’s kind of my general take on that. You cannot look at your business and be like, oh, God. I’m not really doing anything here. I mean, we’re making money, but I’m not really doing it.
You’ve lost. If you look at your business and that is your feeling or conclusion, you lost. You need to start over, okay? And you probably don’t have the energy to start over. So you really lost. You lost for good at that point. You’re probably out of the industry moving on to something else, selling a business, whatever. Okay. I think I’ve, I think I’ve gone on that rant. So let’s talk, what was I doing? I was doing my numbers for 2022. So I told you I like to work with small businesses and large businesses where not snobby. That was the direction we started going. Okay. My project minimum, thus, is $5,000.
So if a client comes and they want to work with our agency, it’s got to be $5,000 in services for a Phase One project. Okay. We can’t do things anything less than $3,500 because the work that’s required to spin up a new project and put thought and energy into a new project and care about a client and care about a new project, there’s got to be a base level of revenue to make those, put those things into motion. All right. And, you know, a lot of you don’t even think about that side of things. You just think about pages and, you know, that’s it. It’s like how many pages is it? Okay. And then you have some number in the back here. No. For me, it’s, here’s a new client.
I know they have. And if you’ve done any of my sales trainings, you know that all the things that we go over in a sales training, right? Which starts with what are the big goals that you have as a client? I want to know what those goals are because I’m going to solve those goals and then I’m going to get paid to solve those goals. And the bigger the goals are, the bigger I’m going to get paid, right? If you’ve got little tiny goals, then we’re going to make a little tiny bit of money. And then maybe it’s not worth it. If you come to me with big goals, then now we’re talking, right? So it’s always matched to the value that we’re going to provide. So with that said, $5,000 is the project minimum. Now, what do you get for $5,000? $5,000 is basically a one-page website. Somebody came to me.
I sold one of these last week. So one of these last week. The person is coming to me. They’re starting a construction company and they need a website up. And you know, they have some money, but they don’t want to go big and crazy yet. They don’t even have projects to put in a portfolio. They have projects that are in progress right now, but they aren’t going to be done until mid 2023, so they can’t even put a portfolio on this website yet. They need it for legitimacy. They need it for proper messaging so that when they make contacts and connections out in the world, and that person’s like, hey, you got a website or they go actually research, like who am I about to do business with? They can pull up a website and they need to be positioned as, hey, this is a legitimate company. We’ve got great messaging.
We’ve got great values. We have a great goal and a focus for our business. And we have a professional presentation. That’s basically what they need the website for, right? So I tell them, look, we don’t need to go. And by the way, they came to me after two other agencies abandoned their projects, right? They were getting started into the project and now that agency is no longer a response. They just ghosted them basically. And so they’re on to me and they got me from a referral, so they didn’t just find me cold, so they know that we’re going to get it done for them. So they’re confident now. But I said, look, we, and the other agencies had proposed this like, you know, classic seven to 10 page website. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, look, we don’t need to do that.
We don’t need to do all that. What we need to do is give you a legit one page website that presents you in a professional light and says the right things. That’s what we need to focus on. We need to focus on copywriting. We need to focus on presentation, your brand, all that stuff. We just need to get that up. And then what we’re going to do is as you grow and you complete these projects and you get more revenue in and you really need to ramp up marketing and advertising and things like that, then we’re going to add on to what we’ve already built. Then we’re going to go multi page after that. Okay. And so I propose this in phases. So phase one is just a simple one page website, $5,000. Okay.
Because as you’re going to see, we have discovery that has to be done in there. We still have UX design. The development still has to be done, copywriting has to go into that. Okay. You’re going to see how all this starts to come together. But $5,000, one page website signed on the line the next day. They’re like, let’s do it. Okay. And we’re starting in January. All right. So $5,000 is the minimum. That’s a one page website. A lot of you are doing 10 page websites for $2,500. Right? So you’re like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Hold on. At a one page, 5,000. I don’t understand. Right? You’ll understand. You’ll understand in a little bit. That’s why we’re here. Okay? All right. So the largest project, what is the largest project that I’ve landed to date? And let’s put it in the chat. Are there any guesses, largest project landed to date? First say what yours is, and then you can guess on mine. All right. We’re going through the comments here.
Sasha says she hates when people try to force you into a super duper niche. Like problems are everywhere to be solved, absolutely. Okay. All right. What we got going on? I don’t know. Oh, this is in a different, I think that’s in a different language. Something about $5,000. All right. One of my favorite things is starting a new project. Energy levels are so important and keep me going. Absolutely. Okay. All right. We’ve got some guesses at 120, 100, 250, 120, 72.
250, 80, 100, K. Okay. 42. My guess for you is 125. All right. Eric Allen. Ding, ding, ding, ding. I don’t know. Where’s my? Okay. I don’t know. There’s no ding, ding, ding. Okay. 125. Now, the 125,000, I’ll give you some details on this, was price out for a one year phase one.
Phase one included more things than just the actual web design. Okay. But the one year phase one was 125,000. So it was about 10,000 a month, 12 payments. But it also came with a $12,500 monthly retainer thereafter. Okay. So it was 125,000 for the first year. That was basically phase one. And then thereafter a retainer of 12,500. Okay. Now, my average project price, just to give you juxtaposition. My average phase one project price in 2022 was $14,000. That was the average project price for phase one. That means it doesn’t include additional phases. Okay.
So we’re not adding what was phase two and phase three and phase four and all of that. It doesn’t include additional services and retainers. It doesn’t include management plans. This was here is the average phase one project price in 2022 was $14,000. Our agency hourly rate in 2022. This is not a calculated hourly rate. This is the hourly rate we charge for hourly work. Now, I do want to say before I give you this number that when we price projects, and you know how the pricing is done if you’re inside the inner circle because you have access to all of my 2022 pricing, we use a mix of standardized pricing and we use a mix of value based pricing. So we don’t price projects at hourly, but we do do hourly tasks. So when we have to do hourly tasks outside of a project amount, then it’s priced hourly. And that’s $175 an hour in 2022 was the agency rate that we would charge for hourly work. Okay. So there gives you some insights on my numbers for 2022.
Now, I want to let you know it’s very important for you to understand if you’re at the $2500 mark on average for a project or you’re at $1500 or you’re at $500. That doesn’t really matter. There was a point in time where I was at the $2500 mark for an average project and I literally could not fathom doing a project at $10,000. Like when I sat and contemplated I was like, how are we going to get the $10,000? I don’t even know how that’s possible. I don’t even know how people don’t, what are they even doing after the person pays and that? What do they do? I’m not doing, right? I would have these conversations with myself. And I just can’t imagine doing a project at $10,000. It doesn’t make any sense to my brain. And at that time, here’s what I’ll tell you. Well, what was also going on at that time? Well, one, I had no formal proposal process. I wasn’t even, I wasn’t doing proposals. I was just sending emails. I was like, I think we can do it for this much, right? Just kind of like winging it.
So just sending emails, no formal proposal process, no real, you know, I’d get on the phone with people and talk to them. But, you know, there wasn’t a real strategy outline in place for, because you have to understand this. And I talk about this all the time in the inner circle sales trainings. The initial sales call that you do, and these are not sales, these sales calls by any means. Anybody that’s in the inner circle can tell you that this, I don’t teach sales. Okay? I teach selling, but I don’t teach sales, right? As you would typically think about sales. But the value that you are going to put on a project and get from that project and the end price is determined in the sales cycle. Right? It’s not about deliverables. It’s like, how many pages, how many of that? That’s a little bit of it. But the real number, the in number, the value, the amount of phases that there are, the other services that are attached, that we’re going to talk about. These things are all determined in this. So if your sales process is non-existent, if you don’t have one, if you don’t understand what you should be talking about on these initial calls, and how you should be talking to people on these initial calls, then that’s why you can’t fathom these other numbers.
Okay? So that is insanely important. I had no formal contracts in place. These were all handshake websites. No formal project processes. Okay? I’ve talked about my process here on YouTube before. I’ve outlined it. The phases that we go through from discovery, to site mapping, to UX design, to copywriting, to UI design, to development, and then launch management, marketing, all of that stuff down the line. Okay? I had no team. I was doing all of this work myself at this time. And I had tremendous mental barriers to pricing higher. And I think most people that price low, that undercharge, that have a low hourly rate, things like that for their agency. If you have an agency, it’s not like you’re a freelancer. If you have an agency, and you have a low hourly rate, and you’re still just pricing purely on hours, I almost guarantee you have a mental, there’s mental blocks that are causing this to happen. And I’ll tell you the biggest one that I’ve seen over and over and over and over again. And this was the one that 100% plagued me for a long time. And the unfortunate side of it is that it will continue to plague you and cause the cycle to repeat over and over and over again.
Like, when you have this mental block, it’s also tough to escape this mental block, because it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. But you basically tell yourself, when you’re pricing out a project, you’re like, well, I personally can’t afford a $2500 website. Like, if I had a business right now, and I needed a website, I would not pay $2500. I can’t, I’m broke. I can’t pay $2500. Like, I got to put food on the table. I got to do a lot of things before I could ever put $2500 to a website project. And because I can’t afford a $2500 website project, I’m going to assume that every single person I talk to in this world also can’t afford a $2500 website. This is the biggest mental barrier that I’ve seen so many people struggle with. And like I said, I have personal experience with this. If you’re not in a position to pay the price, you think nobody is in a position to pay the price. How are you going to get to $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 ever? Like I said, self-fulfilling prophecy. Because if you’re like, oh, I can’t afford $2500. So I shouldn’t charge $2500. Because I don’t think anybody can afford $2500. Because I can’t afford to, like, a whole world revolves around you. And you’re the unique snowflake. What you do, because of that, is you price under $2500. So you’re like, well, maybe I can swing $1500. So I’ll tell them $1500. And we’ll see if they say yes. And then they’re like, yeah, okay, sure, $1500. And then you’re stuck doing a 10-page website for $1500. And you’re still broke. And you’re always broke. Because every time you go to price the next project, you’re like, I still can’t afford it. I’m still broke. I’m as broke as I was last time. I’m still broke. I still can’t afford it. I mean, they can’t afford it. That means I got to price it low again. And it’s just an endless cycle. Okay. Can you drop this in your, in the chat? Has this affected you at all? Have you ever thought this in the back of your mind? Like, let other people know so that they can like, you know, connect with this and understand that it’s not just them that experiences this.
And I’ll go back, guys, if you do have questions, put question in all caps and ask your question. Okay. But let me know in the chat, is this affected you? That specific mental block. Is that ever popped into your mind? Like, I can’t pay for it. So they probably can’t pay for it. Okay. So these were the things that were going on. All right. We got a lot of, a lot of yeses rolling in. Okay. So let me talk about breaking milestones now. How do you, how do you start to break this down? Did two exercises that I’m going to lead you through today are hopefully going to immediately break you out of that mental block? Because when you go through these exercises, you’re going to be like, I can’t do this. This is not, it doesn’t work. Okay. That’s an emotional side of you. Like, I can’t afford it to sometimes to unlock the emotional side. You just have to get out of your feelings and you’ve got to look at the freaking numbers. I’m trying to censor myself. I’d be cussing all over the place right now because I’m fired up. But a lot of people have said, hey, I want to watch this with my kids. I want to watch you know, with kids in the background, whatever. And they don’t, they don’t want me to cuss. Okay. So I’m going to do my best. I would, I would normally be cussing up a storm right now. You look at the numbers and be like, this doesn’t freaking work. And you, I’m getting out of my feelings in 2023. Feelings are no longer going to affect my prices in 2023. That’s what I want you to snap out of today. I want you to get into the mindset of I go by the numbers now. And here’s what the numbers tell me that this stuff I was pricing I before don’t make no sense. Okay. And we’re not doing that anymore. Does, does not make any sense. I’m always going to be broke. I’m never going to get to where I want to go. Things are going to change now. They’re going to change in 2023. Okay. So first, Barry or you need to break us 5,000. If you haven’t made it to 5,000 yet, you have to break that barrier ASAP. That is your job quarter one 2023. You are going to break the 5,000 dollar barrier for an average project price phase one. Okay. The next barrier you need to break is the 10,000 dollar barrier. So 5,000 is a really good barrier to break. 10,000 is the next really important barrier to break.
Guys, there’s only one more barrier after 10,000. You have, if you haven’t hit 5,000 yet, because I want you to feel like this is a climbable mountain. Okay. If you feel like this mountain is not climbable, then you’re not going to do it. This mountain is climb not just climbable. It’s climbable in 2023. One year, you can climb this entire mountain. Okay. There’s one more after 10,000. I would have everybody guess, but the lag is too much lag. It takes too long for the answers to roll in. So I’ll just go ahead and tell you. The 25,000 dollar mark is the final barrier. And I’m going to tell you why. Okay. Once you’ve done a project of $25,000, you are in a mental space because in order to get a project at $25,000, you already have to be in a specific mental space where you’re no longer in your feelings. Okay. And you understand value. You understand proper deliverables. You understand proper processes. You’ve probably done some other projects, you know, 10, 15 in that range. Okay. So you have the confidence that you can deliver a project of this value. And that’s it. Once you’ve passed $25,000, they’re really are. I haven’t run into any other barrier. I just haven’t run into any clients that needed a $250,000 website. But the $125,000 project came after I had only had two other projects above 25. So it wasn’t like I had to get to 50. I had to get to 75. I had to get to 100. No, no, I did a couple over 25. And then when the 125 came along, I sold it at 125. We went on with our life. There was no other barrier that I felt had to be broken. So there’s really only three barriers standing in front of you. If you’re less than five, if you’re already over five, but you’re not over 10 yet, there’s only two barriers standing in your way. Okay. All right. Jason says he has one customer whose project is over 25,000 for the entire year. Sasha said she figured it was going to be 25,000. Okay. Yeah. Amanda said 25,000. All right. Good. People put their guesses in anyway. I like this. I didn’t have to ask. All right. How does an individual start learning this? Okay. You start right here. Right now. We’re going to do this live. You’re about to learn. Okay. You’re about to learn my friend. We’re not going to cover every single detail of everything. Okay. But if you want more than this, then you know where to go. You know where to go to find it. All right. So we talked about breaking the 25,000. Now we got to get into the exercises. We’ve done all the setup. We understand where we’re going with this conversation. Now we need to get into the actual exercises. Let me get my screen share ready to go. All right. The first thing we’re going to talk about. I mentioned there’s three steps. There’s three things I want you to do that that they’re going to prepare you for 2023 and as you move into 2023. So we’re going to talk about number one right now. Number one is I want you to go back through your 20, 22 project list. And I want you to calculate your average project price. And then you’re not going to do this right now. Just pause for a minute. Put your base camp away or whatever you started to open up. Okay. You don’t need to do this yet. Just know in the back of your mind. I need as soon as this training is over right here. This is a training that we’re doing. Okay. It’s not just a normal digital agency table talk.
We’re doing we’re putting in work today. Okay. As soon as this is done, you need to calculate your average project price. But I know that you probably already have an idea of what it is in your mind. So what I want you to do is in the chat right now. And you have to be honest. If you’re not honest with yourself. If you’re not honest with us, you’re not going to get what you need to get out of this out of this session. Okay. So I need you to put in what you believe your average project price honestly was in 20, 22. Okay. Go ahead and drop that in the chat. And I want to see nobody’s judging you. Nobody’s grading you. Okay. We don’t know what your other revenue sources are or income sources. We don’t know anything else about you. But all we’re going to know right now is what your average project price was in 20, 22. I want to see that. I want to see numbers start to come up in the chat. Jason says drop a like for Kevin on the stream. Absolutely. This is how you pay for this content. Okay. You like the value that you get. All you have to do is pay with the like. All right. So Doug says 2500. I want to even say the names. Okay. We’ve got 200 to 500 dollars. Okay. You see that 200 dollars to 500 dollars. We’ve got a 6.5 thousand dollars. That looks like in euros. I guess 10,000 4,000 2500 5000 8,000. Okay. 3000 5000 2000. All right. So you see you’re all within striking distance of each other 2000 2,000 4500 7000. All right. 1000 dollars. We’ve gotten 11. So there’s like 1 person over 10 or 2 people over 10 2000 6000 3 to 5000. Okay. You are all within striking distance of each other. Now what I want you to put in now is what is your hourly rate for hourly work that you charge again. Not the hourly rate you want it to be or that you hoped it would be the hourly rate you actually write down when somebody wants to buy something from your agency. What is the hourly rate. Put this in the chat and this is going to be very, very important to the exercises that we do today. It’s very important that you’re honest with this hourly rate. Okay. 45. We’re all competitors in the same price range. I have to break out. Yes. There you go. That’s one way to see it. 140, 150. Okay. 150. Looking good. See what some other people are out here. 50, 30, 190, 80, 65. Another at 80. Okay. 120, 80, 125, 85, 40, 50, 20. Some of these are in euros. Some of these are I think they exchange rate euros to us. Pretty equal now though. 90, 15. Just now 125. That’s Australian. I don’t know what the conversion rate is on that. Okay. We’re going to use. I don’t know. 125 is maybe 120. What do you guys want to use for our exercise? There are a lot of there’s more people in the 120’s, 140’s, 150’s than I expected. Which is good, which is good. We just need to pin a number down. Maybe we’ll use one. Maybe we’ll use 120 or 100. There are a lot of people of 40, 60 ish in there. Maybe we’ll use 100 for our exercise today. Okay. All right. So this is very important for you guys to keep in the back of your mind. This like this hourly rate thing. Okay. The first thing I’m going to do is I’m going to pull up something that I’ve called the freedom, the financial freedom calculator. Now it’s very, very important. Can you guys see my screen? You should be able to see my screen. It’s very important for you to understand that this is not an agency freedom calculator. This is a personal financial freedom calculator.
It’s a spreadsheet. I’ll share this with you if you want it. I’ll give it to you for free. It doesn’t matter to me. I think it’s a good, rough estimate kind of tool. Okay. We’re going to do this together. You’re going to take a number that you consider to be your standard of living. This is the amount of dollars net that you want to, that you need to live on or not need to live on. It’s that you want to live on. Now you have to be realistic. You can’t be like, I want to live on $20,000 a month. That’s what I, that’s what I want to live on right now. And you’re at like 3000 a month right now. Okay. You can’t, you can’t make that kind of jump in your personal. Personal net income. All right. So you’ve got to make this somewhat realistic. And it can be a goal like, you know, a year from now I want to be at this personal. This is not agency. This is personal money. Okay. Because this really helps you understand from, because first you have to understand how this works from a personal perspective. Then you can magnify it to a business perspective. All right. So we’re right now we’re backtracking all the way back to our personal perspective. So I’m just going to say $6,000. Right. It’s not a little bit of money. It’s not an extravagant amount of money. Where you live, I get it. Okay. Everybody’s going to tell me I live in, you know, blah, blah, blah. And that’s nowhere near what’s fine. Okay. I like, I’ll share this with you. You can apply it. However you want to apply it. But for those of you living in developed countries, United States, Australia, England, all these places, right. We get people from everywhere, obviously. But you know, you you you choose a number that’s like it’s realistic. It’s realistic. It will be nice. It’s realistic. So we’ll just go with $6,000 for right now. Here’s the line right here. This thing called a growth engine that a lot of people don’t consider that it’s not you can’t just the $6,000 that you have. That money needs to be free and clear to take care of your mortgage, your food, your family, your clothes, vacations, whatever else you want to do with your money. Okay. Cars, vehicles, whatever. That $6,000 is allocated to all of those things. You need to now have a growth engine that is money that is free and clear that can be dedicated towards investments, asset allocation, you know, business like if you’re going to start a business, free cash to do things with to take advantage of opportunities that come along that nobody saw coming. Have you ever been in a market where like for example, a real estate market, perhaps where, oh, wow, prices for real estate went to the bottom. And I could get some real estate right now for a really good deal. And in five to 10 years, this real estate is going to amplify dramatically. The problem is I don’t have any money right because you don’t have a growth engine. You don’t have money set aside to take advantage of opportunities that nobody saw coming. You don’t have to be no stardomists right to build wealth. You just need to be able to take advantages as they come. And so for that, you need growth engine money. This is money dedicated towards those types of activities to wealth building activities. The $6,000 goes to expenses. The 30% extra that you’re going to focus on, that’s going to go towards. And this is not 30% of the $6,000. This is 30% of the number that you need to make these numbers work out. That’s going to go towards wealth building. And then you’ve got your taxes that have to be accounted for. So we’ve got to snatch that out of there.
And then you’ve got your working days is how we’re going to calculate this. And the hours that you realistically can be productive during a day. And this is like billable hours. This is not, you know, oh, I was working on a website and then I scattered over to YouTube for a minute. And then yeah, this is like legit, productive hours in an average work day. Well, there’s a lot of working. There’s a lot of days in a year. There’s 365 of them to be exact. I went to public school, but I think I still know that. There’s not 365 billable days in a year. You don’t work on weekends. You take a vacation. Okay, suddenly we don’t have so many days to work with. It’s nowhere near 365. So you can’t calculate this based on how many days there are in a year. Working days, there’s about 260 working days in a year. And then you’re going to take 10 of those out for vacation. Now you have 250 working days. And you ain’t being productive, super productive, billable work eight straight hours every single day. So what is the average working hours per day that are actually billable and productive? Maybe we’ll be conservative around five. Okay. The less conservative you are, the harder it is to make this model work for you to actually get to where you want to go. You really need to be like very realistic with this stuff. Okay. So this tells you that if you want to hit your freedom number, this is again, personal freedom number. If you want to hit your personal freedom number, you need to be billing at $128 per hour on this model right here. Now if you change these numbers, you want more for a growth engine. You want to be more aggressive on your wealth building. You want to be a little bit more aggressive on your standard of living. You want to be less aggressive on how much you work. Okay. Now suddenly you’re hourly raised the wage to hit this freedom number. And this is personal. This is not this is not what your agency charges. This is personal. Okay. How much does my time need to be worth to hit these goals that I have for myself? Then you’re up here. Okay. You’ve got a new hourly target to go after. Now this doesn’t mean you have to actually charge $175 an hour for all the work that you do. There are many ways to hit your freedom number because you also have a monthly freedom number. Not just an hourly rate. You have a monthly freedom number. There’s a lot of ways guys to get to this monthly freedom number. You can do agency. You can do freelance work at $100 an hour. And then you can also be building an asset on the side that’s going to generate revenue. Whether that be through, you know, some of you are trying to be a YouTube right there can be other ways to get income. Maybe you launch a product. And so now you have a product that’s selling over here, but you also got your freelance work over here and combined together, they’re getting you to this number right here. There’s a lot of ways that you can skin the cat.
But you have to know these targets in your mind. And by the way, if you are starting to magnify this towards agency work, right, you can start to see how this starts to structure what your agency would need to be charging because you can run these exact same numbers according to your agency. All right, now that’s exercise number one. What we’re going to go back is let’s see, first of all, what are the comments? Okay. All right, we got some we got some good ones coming in. Yeah, I get it. People are going to talk about locality. Okay. It’s 100% understood. No worries. We’re trying to unlock a different mindset here. And you guys might see these numbers and you’re like, this is, I don’t know, this seems astronomical. It’s not this is just how this if you want to build wealth, right. And not and not live project the project and you want to actually start to invest and you want to change your family tree, like not just change your family, but like change your family tree. We talked earlier about impact that you want to have in other businesses. What about the impact you want to have in your entire family tree? That is possible through you. Okay. These are the kinds of what this is a way you have to think about things. Or I should say a helpful way to think about things. If you’re not thinking about this, if you’re not thinking this way right now, you may want to consider thinking this way, especially if you don’t like the situation you happen to be in. Now, this is only one piece of the puzzle because I just want you to understand when some people think, okay, personal hourly, like how much does my time need to be worth per hour 175 and not even charging that in my agency. Much less like thinking about how much my time is worth on a personal basis. Now, by the way, the other side of this is decision making. All right, how you the decisions you make in business and in life, obviously have a tremendous impact on your outcomes. And so if you believe, I’m going to give you examples. If you believe that your hourly rate needs to be worth 175 dollars personal, personal hourly rate needs to be worth 175 dollars per hour. Why are you out mowing your lawn? Right? My neighbors never see me mow my lawn. Why do they never see me? And I’m not saying, oh, I don’t like to do hard physical work. Now, I go to do do dog like I’m pretty good on the physical side of things, okay, I train with absolute killers. Now, it’s not a physical thing. It’s a I look at my that hour that it would take me to mow my lawn is going to cost me 175 dollars or I can pay somebody $55 or $75 whatever happens to cost to mow my lawn every week. You make economic decisions when you have a value on your time of a certain amount. There are a lot of things you guys do that you’re putting time because it saves money, but really you’re losing money in this model. And if you adopt this model and way of thinking, you’re going to stop losing a lot of money on the things you think you’re saving a lot of money on. Right? So it does create a dramatic shift in the decisions you make in your day to day life. Now, if you love mowing your lawn and you’re like, no, mowing my lawn is like my meditation and I just love it. I love the way the grass looks and I feel like I did that and I accomplished whatever whatever your justification.
Fine, fine, you can mow your lawn. It’s not, but you just have to recognize that, hey, I’m spending this time. I’m choosing to do it and you know, I’m losing money on this, but the feeling I get in doing this activity is worth it. When I go to Jiu Jitsu for two hours, I’ve lost a lot of money technically, right? But I’ve gained a lot of other things, okay? And what I gain is more valuable to me than that time financially. So I do it, right? But these are how, these are the decisions that you make and how you weigh things when you know what your time needs to be worth. It influences things. And you can make your work and the choices you make in your life more efficient, okay? All right. Now, we’re going to move on to the second part of this. This is opening the door, starting to get you to think in a different way. Now what we have to do is we have to flip over to exercise number two, which is our web design, itemization exercise. And we’re going to see how itemizing an actual project actually plays out in terms of these numbers that we’ve been considering. And I ask you guys, what should we base this on? You know, should we’re not going to do it at 175? We’re going to do it at like one, let’s just say 110. I don’t know, is that a fair, hourly amount? We could go a little lower, we could go higher. Hey, I’ll give you this spreadsheet too, okay? So for free, you can play around with these numbers all you want and you can see how they work out for you. But this should hopefully be eye opening on the project level. That last exercise should have been eye opening on the personal level. Now we have to work on being eye opening at the business level and the project level. Okay. First thing I want to do before we do this, and I need you to get your fingers ready, okay? Because I need your input on these line items. I don’t want to just throw out numbers on myself. I want you guys to help me throw out numbers that we’re going to plug into the spreadsheet and see what we get at the very end. All right. All right, let’s see what are people saying in the chat. Okay. This is why I don’t have a lawn, says stratus, 100%. Yeah, you may not just to say, I don’t even, I don’t even want a lawn at all. I’ll save that money too. All right. Are these sheets in the inner circle, Kevin? They will be, they will be, but I’m just, I’m giving everybody can have them. Everybody can have them. All right. Are your fingers ready? Just let me know if your fingers are ready. Also, let me know. Did you, did, was that last exercise beneficial in some way for how you should see your time and the, and the value of your time?
While, while you guys do that, I will take a sip here. And our numbers are going up on the livestream. That’s even better. Man, there is a very substantial delay. And then all the chat comments just bombard me all at once. Okay. We’re saying very helpful. All right. We are going and we are starting this. So what I’ve done here, if you’ve watched, so there’s two videos that I would recommend you watch other than this one today. I did a video. I think it was maybe in December of last year. It was like, I think toward the end of 2021 heading into 2022 or maybe very early in 2022. Two videos that I want you to watch. One is how to three X your revenue overnight. Okay. How to three extra revenue overnight. And while that title sounds like it’s, oh, that’s, you know, he’s embellishing. Okay. You can’t really three extra revenue overnight. Actually, I was, I was underestimating. That would be like the minimum. Okay. For those of you who are at low prices already. Right. So the people who are like, I’m at $1,500, $2,500 legitimately 90% of the projects. I’ll even 95% of the projects that are priced at $2,500. I could sell for three times that to the same client, same specifications, same everything. I’ll sell it at three times what you sold it for. And I’ll get them to sign. So that’s how you can three X overnight. That’s minimum. Okay. So when I say watch the video where I say three extra revenue overnight. It’s not, you can actually do that. You can actually three extra revenue overnight. So go watch that video. And the other one is 20 ways to level up your digital agency. I think I published that around the same time. 20 ways to level up your digital agency. The 20 ways video is going to talk about a lot of things that we don’t necessarily hit on in today’s digital agency table talk. But between those two videos, one of the themes that you’re going to see is that you need to be charging for all of the things which you deliver. And this is not a crazy psychological breakthrough of any kind whatsoever. It’s not a business breakthrough. It should just be obvious. I don’t know what it is about web designers and agencies and but they do a lot of free work. A lot of free work. And if you go anywhere else, right. They they they you know businesses tend to charge you for all the things that you ask them for. And so if we really itemized a project the way a project is supposed to be done. And I want to put this disclaimer out of be very crystal clear about this because I’m going to get people who argue with me about this. And they’re going to be like, well, you don’t have to do that. I can do a website without doing UX. I can do a website without doing XYZ. You’re doing it. You’re just not charging for it. And you don’t have a process for it. And you’re just winging it. And you’re not doing it very well. But that doesn’t mean you’re not doing it. You should be doing it. You should have a process for it. You should be doing it well. And you should be charging for it. That’s my argument. Okay. So anything you see in this list, you’re like, that doesn’t need to be there. It actually does need to be there. And you need to be doing it right. And you need to be charging for it. And the minute you realize this is the minute you realize, hey, I can get better outcomes from my client. I can be more valuable to my clients. I can have a better track record of results. And I can demand higher prices.
So any time you say that doesn’t need to be there. That is your your limitation. And that’s exactly what is limiting you from charging the prices you need to be charging. Okay. And if this was any other business besides yours, you would probably agree. If you are a business consultant coming in to talk to a business about why they’re struggling. Right. There’s plenty of business shows out there. You can watch where they come into struggling businesses and they start to piece things back together again and get them on the right track. And you’re going to see this kind of stuff all the time. People, the business owners making excuse what we can do this because we can’t do that. We can’t price this way. Okay. And then the consultant fixes all of those things because it’s all they’re all up in their feelings. It’s not actual reality. And then the business starts working well. You you need to get out of your feelings and look at your business and the deliverables that we are charged with delivering. You need to get all this stuff straightened out. This exercise helps you do that. So don’t make excuses as we go through this. Live in reality with us. Okay. Get out of your feelings and and let’s see what these numbers come out to. Okay. So let’s do this. Let me go. I was trying to find our chat. All right. All right. Good. So here’s what we’re going to do. Initial discovery. So I’m going to walk you through this. We are all in the same situation right now. We just opened up our email inbox and we have a new lead. We have a new lead from a client. Everybody. Fantastic day. It’s a fantastic. We all are happy. We’ve all gotten the same new lead. Imagine that. And this new lead wants a simple website. This is not even going to be something extravagant. It is a simple website. It’s that classic. They want to brochure website. Doesn’t need a lot. Okay. They’re they’re giving you all the cues that they don’t have a lot of money. But it’s a simple website. Let’s say five pages. There’s a five page website. In fact, I kind of have it mapped out here. It’s going to have a home page. Imagine that. It’s going to have an about page. It’s going to have a services page. It’s going to have a portfolio page. And it’s going to have a contact page. That’s it. Not anything else. That’s it. That’s what they need. All right. Now we’re going to get on a sales call with this person. There’s going to be in fact, I will move these into a different order. Okay. There’s our initial call right there. I hope I’ve got all my calculations put out. It should be okay. It should work fine. All right. So the initial call guys, how long are we going to spend with them on the initial call? Do you think it’s going to be 15 minutes? Do you think it’s going to be 30 minutes? Do you think it’s going to be 45 minutes? Do you think it’s going to be an hour?
What how long do you think we’re going to spend on the initial call? And I’m going to look at Mark Peters here. My next video. How to triple your revenue overnight with frames. Oh, that’s a good one, Mark. All right. You mean you can sell at 3X if one has their site quality game together accessibility organic SEO. All the things we talk about are going to be how you can sell. Just go watch the video. I talk about exactly what goes into it. A freelancing says I do so much free stuff. Yes, I’m giving away a lot says Joanna. I think it’s Joanna. Joanna. Guilty on the free stuff parts as Mark. Okay. All right. So I’ve got 30 minutes, 15 minutes, one hour and 15 minutes so far. 45 to 60 30 minutes max 20 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes, y’all are selling websites in 10 minutes. That’s phenomenal. I wish I could do that. I would. I definitely have more margin in my business. Okay. Initial call 1.5 hours. All right. Let’s slap a 30 minutes on here. 30 minutes. So initial discovery now. So we’ve done the initial call. Oh, you know what? Why had this? Let’s do this. Okay. Initial. This is sorry. This is a different deliverable. I was already thinking ahead. Initial discovery is we got the lead in our inbox before we get on a call with this person. It would be really great if we actually looked at their website and saw what they had going on. What kind of businesses it? How do they sell? What’s wrong with their existing website? Do they have any SEO going on? You know, just general stuff that hopefully you look at that’s initial discovery before you even get on a sales call. How long we spending on that? Friends? How long are you going to dedicate to that? Do we do that for 30 minutes? Do we do that for an hour or two hours? Give me an amount for our initial discovery. I don’t even know if we’re going to be able to separate these out. I’ll put a number on here for you guys. Okay. 30 minutes. Let’s just take 30 quick minutes. We’re going to kind of low ball some of this stuff too. If you don’t low ball this is going to look even worse at the end. It’s going to make my point even more. But we’re just going to kind of low ball some of this stuff. So 30 minutes I want to spend just looking over the person’s what do they have going on? Maybe I check these people out on social media. I want to know who I’m talking to. I want to know what kind of angles I can take on this stuff. How do I connect with this person a little bit better? If I’m going to spend 30 minutes, I’m going to spend initial discovery. Then I’m going to get on the call. I’m going to spend 30 minutes with them on the call. Then I’m going to create a proposal. Now you guys have my proposal template inside the inner circle. It shouldn’t take you all that long to create a custom proposal for somebody. We’re going to say hey, 30 minutes. We’re going to spend crafting our proposal. Then we’re going to do a follow up call. I’m going to put a point to five on that follow up call. It doesn’t have to be as long as the initial call was. Just kind of cross and tease, dot, some eyes.
They’re feeling good. They had a last minute few questions that they wanted to go over before they accept your proposal. We got to get on another quick little call with them. And here’s where we are. We’re at 1.75 hours. The project hasn’t even started yet. We’re at 1.75 hours. You’re probably like, why would you? I don’t understand why you billing for this time because it’s my time, dog. What were you like? Because this takes work. This initial discount. Why should that be free? Do I just want to look at everybody’s website for free? Initial call. I just get on sales calls all day for free. I create proposals for free. Why I’m doing something for your project. Right. That’s part of the amount that goes into the end project. You’ve got to get paid to do this work. If you have 10 proposals and you don’t close any of them, my friend, you are one you’re not doing your job at some point. Like something’s going wrong. But you’re also, that’s a lot of cost. Imagine this. Imagine this. You’re like, I don’t like the sales part of this. I want somebody else to do the sales part of this. Well, if you had to hire somebody to do initial discovery and the initial call and the proposal creation and that follow-up call, I guarantee you, my friend, you’re spending a lot more than that right there. So you are way in the hole. And that’s how you have to think of this as a business. You can’t think, oh, what’s it going to cost me to do these things? No. What does it cost the business to do these things? Because if you ever want your time back and if you ever don’t, if you want to ever be in a situation where you don’t feel like you are absolutely buried with work, project to project, got to work every single day. I’m the only one doing it. And why can’t I get out of this cycle? This is why. Because this is what you would build to do this yourself. And you can’t hire somebody to do those four steps for that amount of money. I mean, maybe it’s a little close, but still like, and you put a commission on a sales person now, now, now we’re really talking right. So you have to charge for these things. Now, let’s go into project management. Because let me let me just tell you right now, if you want to start to scale up your agency, the one of the first things you’re going to need as more projects come in the door is a project manager. Right now you might be able to manage the projects on your own. But if you have to hire a project manager, my gosh, you better be building for project management deliverables. Somebody’s got to get the software set up and organize and put systems in place. Somebody’s got an on board, new clients. Somebody’s got to do weekly check-ins.
Somebody’s got to respond to all these emails. These clients are sending or all these messages back and forth in base camp or whatever software that you use. There might be phone calls. I didn’t even put on here. We’ll just say all communication. It might be phone calls, emails, maybe you text message with a client. I don’t do that. But maybe you do. I don’t know. This is all project management. And by the way, guys, if a company, and you think a company that’s going to pay a lot of money for a website, if they were going to do this internally, because a lot of companies of great size have a decision to make. Do we hire an agency or do we develop our own internal team that’s going to handle all of our digital marketing? Well, guess what? If they were going to assemble an internal team to do all of their digital marketing, they are going to hire a project manager. They have to hire somebody to organize and manage all of the stuff that they’re going to be doing. So it makes sense that if they would have to pay to do it internally, they’ve got to pay you to do it because you’ve got to do it in turn. Somebody has to pay for the project management. I don’t know. Most of you don’t charge for project management. I know that. Right. Why? You are delivering. These are things you are delivering, which by the way are of great value. Have you ever been a client in a thing that you’ve purchased that requires a system, but there are no systems. It’s freaking. I’m trying not to cause. It’s chaos. And you’re like, this is a terrible experience. Objectively, I hate my life right now. I wish this company had their stuff together and had processes and had systems in place so that I could be having a good experience right now. Well, how much more is it worth to you to have a good experience? It’s kind of worth a lot. Like if you went on a cruise, right? I’m about to go on a cruise. If I go on the cruise and they have no systems, they have no processes in place, nobody knows what’s going on. I don’t get, you know, towels delivered to my room or whatever it is I want. All the restaurants suck. All the restaurants are, you know, you can’t get the right food. The food is all terrible. You know, everything that can go wrong. And you’re like, well, it’s because this place, this cruise line had terrible processes and terrible systems and terrible management. Okay, how much more would you have paid? Let’s say that was the budget cruise. Hey, I scored these tickets for $250. We’re going to $250. Okay. And then you get on the $250. And everything goes wrong because, well, it’s $250. They don’t have all this stuff in place that a $2500, $5,000 cruise would have had in place. And the experience, one is a nightmare, one is a fantastic experience. Okay. Most people would choose the fantastic experience. Well, you don’t get the fantastic experience for free. Okay. Somebody has to be there to manage. Somebody has to put the process in place. That all has to be paid for. It’s easy to not have those things and to make it cheap, but the experience sucks. The outcome sucks. Okay. So if you’re not doing this and you’re not charging for it, maybe you’re experiencing so great.
Maybe your outcome’s ain’t so great. Okay. So we got to start charging for this. So software set up. I don’t know. This is, and this is like, you would break this down to like per client or something. How long does it take you to onboard a client? It’s not very long. It’s pretty quick. We’re just going to fly through this weekly check-in. But by the way, this is a project that’s probably going to take six to eight weeks. Let’s say it takes eight weeks. And you’re like, all right. So we’re going to do a weekly check-in. I’m going to do 30 minutes a week for eight weeks. All right. That’s four hours. We got a slap on there that’s total across the project. Now we’re going to do all communication. Okay. How much more time would you say like, I don’t know, just two hours of random additional communication outside of your weekly check-ins. We’ll put two hours on that. Now we’re actually going to go into our discovery phase of the project. The paid discovery phase. This is discovery that they paid for upfront. Okay. We’re going to talk about this in just a minute guys. Okay. More details when we get to the third thing I want you to do for 2023. But here we are. We’re doing our discovery phase. So keyword research. We got to put minimum, minimum half an hour into that. But that is like you’re rushing it and you don’t really care all that much. So let’s bump that up. Let’s say we’re going to do an hour of keyword research. Site map creation. I don’t know. We’ll put a point seven five on that. You can kind of do a lot of that as you do your keyword research. So you don’t have to like do all the keyword research first then do the site map. You can do some of that together. A little bit of crossover there. Market research. I mean I’ve got to if I really want to have good outcomes for this client, I got to know what their market is looking for and what their market wants. But I’m going to low ball this for you guys. Okay. We’ll do it. We’ll say I’m going to spend an hour on market research. And then to plan out the copy for the site to plan out the narrative. How are we going to position the content on this website to meet the goals that this client has. They want to sell things right. They want to get new leads. Whatever it happens to be. This can be hours guys. We’ll put an hour on here. I guess I don’t know what we’re going to we’re going to try to low ball this as much as we possibly can. Okay. Now we’re going to the UX design phase. How long do you think if you opened up Figma and you started and let’s just say you know Figma already. But you put some legitimate thought into designing the experience the user is going to have on this website. You’re not into development yet. You’re not into design yet. You’re creating wire frames. You’re going to create a home page wireframe. Now I know a lot of you bought frames and you know you can fly through this now. But if you had to open up Figma and actually do this by hand. Create these wire frames and legitimately put thought and energy into it. Which means it’s not just whipping it up. It’s like all right. I do my hero and then I’m planning this kind of features section and I’m mapping it out in Figma. But I get to the end of that features and I’m like this is not going to get the job done. I got to I’m not like in the direction this is going. I mean move that section out of the way start fresh doing new section and you’re legitimately doing your job of planning the experience.
The user is going to have and the content flow of this of each web page of each one of these pages. How long does the home page take you? I’m going to put a two on there. Two hours. If you do it in less than two hours and you’re not just like flying through with templates. Then you’re probably not putting a lot of energy and thought into this. You’re just kind of going with the flow. That kind of sounds good. Whatever. Okay. Throw it in like that. You’re not legitimately doing like UX design. You are you’re just doing like rapid wire framing. So what we really should be thinking about is legitimate UX design. Very, very important on every single project that you do. Because you need to plan out the experience the user is going to have because if they have a bad experience, they’re not converting. Plain and simple. If they don’t get the narrative in the right order, they’re not converting. Plain and simple. So we want this website to reach the goals the client has. How about the about page? Now I’ll tell you once you’ve done the home page, it gives you some direction for these other pages. So these other pages don’t take as long typically unless we have like a long sales page kind of thing that we have to do. But we haven’t we haven’t that’s not needed in this particular project. So in about page, let’s say we’re going to spend an hour on the about page. We’re going to spend, you know, the services page. We’re not going to do individual services pages. So this services page is like an overview and it kind of has to be. You know, it’s more involved in like a grid of cards. Okay. So we’re going to put an hour into that. We’re going to put an hour into our portfolio page. And we’re going to put 30 minutes into our context page. And these are for the, this is for the UX design, wire frames, all of that. And then you guys know, come on now. You know that when we deliver these wire frames to Fred, Fred’s not going to be like, oh, you guys knocked it out of the park amazing job. I love everything about it. Let’s move forward. Right. What does Fred always say? Well, can we do this? Can we do that? Can we like, you know, there’s iterations. There’s other work you’re going to have to do. And so how long is that extra Fred work going to take you? We’re going to put an hour on that additional Fred work. Okay. So we’ve got an hour there. All right. Now we’re going to move into the UI design phase. I want a number from you guys on this homepage.
Legitimately, you are going to spend time as if this was your own website. That’s how much you care about this client site. It’s sure it’s like it’s your own. If it were me, this is the design that I would, let’s pretend that you’re a designer. Okay. I know most of you have to hire a designer. If you really want this to get done right. That’s what I do. I hire a designer. I don’t do the design myself. And you got to be thinking about like how many hours if you commissioned a designer to do a design in Figma, how many hours do you want them to spend getting the homepage exactly right? Like let’s really put time and attention into it. I don’t want you to rush it. I don’t want you to just slap some stuff together. God, it’s really hard. It’s really hard to not cost. I don’t know what this is not me. Okay. But I’m doing it. I’m doing it for you guys. How much time do you want them to spend the, when you do this, it’s not about like, and by the way, the client put yourself in the client shoes. Mr. Client, do you want us to rush through these tasks as fast as we possibly can? Or would you like us to invest some time and attention to detail and thought and bake a little of our expertise into these items? Or do you want us to throw stuff together and get it done as fast as possible? Mr. Client, you decide. What do you think our legitimate client is going to say? Well, they’re going to say, why don’t you spend all the time in the world on it? But I don’t want you to slap it together. I want it to be done right. So invest the amount of time that you think is necessary to get it done right. So you guys are number. What are we at for home page UI design? This is like in Figma, you’re beautifying the wireframe. You’re taking the wireframe and you’re like, let’s put all the bells and whistles on it, all the colors, all the flair, all the design work. How long are you spending on the home page? Give me a number that you feel is realistic. I’m going to use your number here. Kevin says, depending on the complexity of the home page, anywhere from 6 to 15 hours. Anna says, five hours at least for design. I’m slow, but thorough. Two to three hours for the home page. Fred work takes four hours. LOL. Okay, I’m going to bump Fred work to two hours. We just bump Fred work to two hours. All right, what are we at for the home page? I’ve seen four. Oh, did that return a zero? Hang on. Let me. Oh, geez, come on now. There we go. Okay, good. All right, thank you. Thank you for spotting that. We should be fixed now. All right, home page UI. Let’s see what people are saying. We got to put in a number for this. Okay. Depending on the complexity. Okay, so let’s go with, I don’t know, I want to lowball this. We’re going to go 2.5. Okay, 2.5. Now the about page, the about page services page again, some of the design work that you do on the home page obviously flows over to these other pages. If you design some testimonial cards on the home page, well, you can use those testimonial cards on the about page and services page wherever else are going to be used. So that’s not work that really has to be done again and again and again. So I’m going to go, let’s say like 1.25 on the about page. Let’s go 1. Well, the services page probably has some other unique things that you’re going to have to put on there. But the portfolio page, we it’s not, you know, super extensive. We can we can do that in an hour, maybe. And then the contact page, that’s a simple page. We might even be able to put, you know, 0.5 on there, maybe 30 minutes for our contact page. Oh, man, Fred, Fred is back, guys, because we’ve done all these designs, these mockups, right.
And now we got to bring these back to Fred and think and see what Fred thinks. And you guys know it ain’t Fred this time. It’s a little bit of Fred, but Fred. Fred has a colleague or a grandmother or a friend or whatever, you know, who did design back in the day. And they got some opinions about the work that you’ve done. And so, you know, Fred’s grandmother, who used Microsoft paint once back in 1987. Things that the logo should be bigger and things that, you know, you should move some things around and, you know, change of the colors a little bit. Now, obviously we’re going to push back on that and say, Fred, with all due respect to your grandmother, my friend, they don’t know what they’re talking about. Now, we do think some of the ideas that you’ve given us Fred are good ideas and we can rock, we can rock a roll with those. So we’re going to do a little bit more Fred work. Maybe two hours of additional Fred work here to get these UI mockups really buttoned up and ready to go. All right, is this fair? Nothing’s out of pocket here, right? Like this all seems that we’re still kind of low-balling this. All right, now we’re getting into content. Now, here’s what we’re going to do. Because I really want to low-ball this stuff. I really want to low-ball. We’re not even going to do copywriting for this project. We are going to do what I say you should never do if it all possible. We’re going to let the client create the content. We shouldn’t do it. I’ve said we should not do this. We should charge for the copywriting because it’s one of the most important parts of a website. We cannot hand this over to the client. It was no idea what they’re doing with copywriting. I should read you some of the copy of clients tried to give me not too long ago. Oh, boy. Oh, man, I can’t do that, but I should do that. Look, you should not let the client handle this, but just because I want this to look as bad, the worst this looks, the more you’re going to snap out of your feelings. That’s really what I need you to do. Snap out of your feelings so that you can start putting real prices on these projects. We’re just going to do content insertion. That’s all we’re going to do. How long does it take to take the content you’ve been given from Fred and inserted onto the homepage?
Keep in mind, Fred is not great. He overrope some areas and those are going to have to be tidied up a little bit. Fred has some misspellings in there. It’s not just copy-paste, copy-paste, copy-paste. You’ve got to tidy some things up. 30 minutes for the homepage. Let’s do 30 minutes for the about page. Fred loves himself. He wrote a bio that’s way too long for the area that’s available on the about page. Fred always happens, right? Fred loves himself. We had to do some work tidying that up. 30 minutes on the about page. Services page copy. There’s kind of a lot there because we don’t have individual services pages. We’ll go 0.75, insert the content on the service page there. Portfolio. Fred dumped a whole library of photos on you and you know Fred did not organize those photos into folders. You’re going to first have to look through them and then you’re going to be like Fred, did you take these on an iPhone 6? Where are these photos? These are not high enough for resolution Fred. Let’s go back up here. We had this all communication weekly check-in area. That’s what these numbers are for. You know Fred, ain’t deliverant stuff the way Fred is supposed to deliver it in an efficient fashion. You’ve got a lot of conversation with Fred. Fred, I need you to put these into folders for us and then we’ll be able to insert them on the website. There’s a lot of that going on. Then there’s like, you still got to sort them. He gave you all verticals. Of course, all verticals. You needed a horizontal for the hero. You needed a horizontal for your Fred gave you all verticals. You know he did. There’s just a lot of FUCKERY. I can’t say it, but you know I said it before. There’s a lot of that involved in this portfolio page. I’m still going to lowball it. You get it done in an hour. Now the contact is paid. Easy, easy. That one we can just rock and roll through. No problems. Now Fred did say I don’t have photos for everything. I need you guys to find some stock photos to fill in these other areas. And so just go ahead and do that for me. And a lot of you are just like, well, I’m a charity. So I’m going to go ahead and I’m just going to spend a couple hours browsing stock photos. I find in the perfect images. And I’ll do that. And you know I’m just going to make sure the Fred’s happy. And so all right. So we’re doing charity work. Two hours of well, let’s lowball it. You are the fastest stock photo finder that’s ever walked to the earth. And so you find images for every area. Not just any image. I’m not saying you rush it. You find the perfect image for every area in an hour. Okay, so here we are on this side of things. Now guys, we haven’t even really done development. Okay. You’re really you’re inserting this content. You choose. I mean, did you insert this content in the figmas or did you insert this content after the development was done? I don’t really care. It’s going to take the same amount of time either way.
So let’s just move on to development. Okay. So homepage. Here you are. You have wire frames. You have mockups. You need to actually build this thing in bricks. So we all fire up bricks. And we’re like, we’re going to get to build it. Now if you use frames, when you did the wire framing part, a lot of this is already done. All right. That’s a cheat code frames is a cheat code. We’re doing this the old fashioned way. We’re and we’re going to still price everything the old fashioned way. All right. So development. Home page. How long does it take you to develop from scratch the homepage and this includes the header and the footer and the navigation and all that. So how long does it take you guys you think to whip up a homepage in bricks from an existing mockup wireframe. Kevin says, what if you do custom photography. Exactly. If you need to do custom photography, you you got to build for all that, right. D123 says perfect image for every need on the site in an hour. No. Exactly. No. It’s not. It’s none of this is realistic. Because if I make it realistic, it’s going to make you guys look even worse when we look at the numbers. Okay. I want it to look as bad as it can possibly be because if you put real numbers in here, you are going to walk off like you are going to be sweating bullets. You’re going to be like that dude flying an airplane. Remember that movie airplane. He’s trying to fly and land the plane and the water is pouring out of his forehead. That’s you. If we put real numbers in here for how long this stuff actually takes. That would be you. Okay. And you know, I just want to be as because if I low ball this and it still looks bad for you, then you’re going to really know how bad it is. All right. What are we at homepage development homepage development. Stoshis says 1.2 to 2.5 hours. 2.5 hours. Okay. All right. Four hours. All right. Let’s just do two. You’re fast. You’re quick. You’ve been watching digitally ambition videos. Actually, you know, 2.5 because we got to we got across our teeth and dot our eyes. We got to make the cards a list of items. We got to put some actual detail attention to detail in there. We’ll add another 30 minutes. Okay. So you’re at 2.5 for this homepage development. The about page you’re going to get that done in an hour. Services page. That’s going to take you 1.5. I’m just going to throw some numbers in here for us. All low ball numbers. By the way, all low ball numbers. Unless you’re using frames, then you are using the cheat code port folio. Well, guys, the portfolio. That’s going to need some facets because we got it, you know, person arrives. They got to choose a category. They want to see we’re going to make it a little bit dynamic. Okay. We’re not just throwing a gallery on a page. So we’re going to go, you know, two hours to really button that page up. Contact paid man. That’s quick. That’s real quick. We’ll just pop a point five on there and then forms and custom fields and all that jazz on the back end. I don’t know. Let’s pop up 1.5 on there. One point. Let’s just do a one. You’re quick with it. You’re quick with it. Okay. You’re using metabox. You whipping this stuff up. You’re pretty quick with it. So one hour. Now we go into our launch deliverables. Okay. We’re getting towards the end of our project here. We’ve done a lot of work thus far.
Punch list. Fred is back. Guys. Fred is back. You told Fred, hey, we’re pretty much done. We’re ready for you to look things over. Fred goes through the website. You know Fred is not going to be like, man, you guys knocked it out of the park once again. How do you guys keep knocking out of the park? I don’t have any feedback whatsoever. No, Fred doesn’t do that. Fred never does that. Fred always finds some. He finds some stuff. Okay. And Fred’s got a little punch list for us. And so we go through that punch list. It takes about an hour, but in a lot of things up. Fred wants a little tweaks and adjustments, right? And then Fred actually has one more punch list after that because we do another final review after we go through that punch list. And he just he has a few more things that we need to hit up. And so 1.5 hours on our punch list phase of this project to cross every T and not every I before we’re ready to launch. Then we also have the testing that we’ve done along the way. And then we get your mobile testing in. Gotta get your multi browser testing in. You got to click every link. Make sure it all works. You got to go through the site. Make sure all that nav is good to go. There’s a lot of things that we got to pay attention to in a testing phase. How fast are you going to be able to get that done? Let’s five page websites. And I think crazy. Let’s say you can test everything up in an hour. You’re quick. You’re quick. You got some polypane action open. You can do some multi browser development or testing and multi device testing all at the same time. Efficiency. You’re efficient. Okay. DNS little swapping on the DNS side of things. I just messed that up. Let’s do 0.25. Okay. You know Fred. Okay. Fred’s like, hey, or actually we say Fred, we’re ready to swap this thing over for you. We need your go daddy credentials. And Fred’s like, oh, I don’t know my go daddy. Fred never knows this go daddy credentials. You know that. You’re a little bit of back and forth there trying to get the go daddy credentials. Now Fred finally gets you his go daddy credentials. And you plug them in and you’re about to log in and switch this website over and what happens? What always happen? You know what always happens to factor authentication. We’re stuck once again. So guys, we’re getting all this down to 0.25. All right. So now we got to get on the phone with Fred Fred Fred Fred. Hey, there’s two factor authentication on your account.
So it’s going to send you a text message. Fred’s like, what’s the text message? It’s going to Fred’s going to send you a text message with the code. I need you to get me that code. Okay. And then so now this whole thing with Fred getting you the two factor off. So you get that now you’re actually in the go daddy account. And now you actually find Fred’s domain. And now you can actually swap over the DNS and you actually route it through cloud flare because you know what you’re doing. Right. You put this all through with cloud flare. So that’s all getting set up. Guys, we’re low ball in this 0.25 for the DNS. All right. You get the point. Here we are. Here’s our estimated amount or low ball the amount. 43.5 hours. Now what what have we not accounted for? We have not accounted for expertise, experience value. Right. Now a little bit of that is accounted for in whatever you pin your hourly wage to be. We pin to $110 up here as our hourly wage. Some of this is baked into the hourly wage. What about your team though? You know, where’s your team and all this? Did you do all this work yourself or did you do you have to pay people now? Marketing and advertising. These are things. Remember when I talked about personal growth engine that amount you have to set aside for your personal wealth building and personal growth engine. In business, you need to be trying to generate a set a stack of cash, a separate bag, if you will. That’s going to go to marketing and advertising. That’s going to go to growth of this agency because it’s not going to grow itself. All right. What about insurance? What about just pure profit? Okay. There’s a lot of other things we got to think about. But here’s what I want you to recognize. At $110, that’s the hourly rate you guys kind of chose. All right. We kind of averaged it out based on what everybody was saying. At this hourly rate, at this minimum of time to do these actual activities that are important to do on every single website build. If you sell that website, five page website guys, a lot of you are in this range right here. You sell that at $2,500. You just lost almost as much as what you charged to do that project.
This is what you need to see happening when you price projects. You know now. Here’s all the stuff I got to count for. Here’s all the stuff I got to do. We’re not pushing pixels around the screen. Right. We’re actually going to manage this project. We’re actually going to do the proper discovery and research and planning. We’re actually going to design a user experience. We’re actually going to put time and effort into a UI that perfectly matches your brand. Right. We’re going to actually do. In fact, this doesn’t even include the copywriting. Okay. So that’s another whole can of worms development. We’re actually going to put our time and do this development right. And then we’re going to launch this thing for you. These are the thing that deliverables that we are responsible for. And for those of you who are like, I don’t do that. You do do it. You do. Well, if you’re not doing the research and planning stuff, you’re just not doing your job right. That’s number one. If you don’t do the wire frames, you’re still doing UX. You’re just doing it as you go. And you’re not doing it very well because nobody can really do it very well when they’re trying to do design and UX and development all at the same time. Let’s say the cheat code frames because then your wire framing is done for you. Then you can focus on design and the development is kind of doing itself already. Okay. That’s why frames is the cheat code. But that’s not what we’re. That’s not the situation we’re in right now. We’re in a situation where we actually have to do these steps from scratch like a legitimate agency does these things. Okay. Because we are trying to achieve real goals for a real business. All right. So $2,500. Guys, you’ve lost $2,175 on this. You needed to price this project at least at $4,675. Now, some of you are like, well, I actually have my hourly rate higher. Oh, you do. Okay. What is it? $150? You think? And by the way, I’m not advocating that you actually price based on hours. And these are all low-ball hours, too. Guys, if this looks ugly, if we put real times in here, it would look even uglier. That’s my point. Okay. If you think you should be charging $150 an hour, you’ve lost $3,800 selling that project of $2,500. You have to be at least at $6,375. Okay. And that’s low-balling everything and not writing the copy the way that you should be. All right. So I’m going to share this with you. You can change up these numbers however you want. Even if we’re down at $75, lowly dollars an hour, which no agency really would be. This is not a realistic agency rate. You’re still lost $687 doing you basically what I’m saying is five page website, simple website. You can’t do a simple website ever at $2,500. Ever. It never makes sense. These numbers will never work out. Okay. This is poverty wages in the in the web design world. So if that doesn’t snap you out of this area that you’re in right here, I don’t know what will you have to get out of your feelings and look at the numbers. This math does not add up for me. It only adds up for the clients that I’m doing work for. I will always be stuck. I will always be struggling. I will always be living project to project. And that’s not how I want my agency to go. And that’s how I want my life to go. And that personal number that I set in that first exercise we did. And ever going to be achieved if we keep doing projects like this. Okay. So you guys play around with this spreadsheet. Do what you want with it. Let it open your eyes a little bit.
Because all in all this is doing this is not magic. All this is doing is saying. If I want to do this project legitimately and you can even talk to the client like this. This is how you should think about the sales conversation. I know all the things I have to do you don’t know all the things I have to do. Because you’re not a web designer you’re not an agency you you think we just push pixels around the screen. You think we just whip up you know some magic program and it just does all this kind of stuff for us and we don’t actually do that much work is really not that you know why it’s because Fred here’s what Fred Fred’s thinking. And I’ve gone over this before my sales call trainings Fred in his mind is hiring a web designer and you know who he’s hiring. Well he’s hiring somebody that you know yesterday Fred was on the couch and he was watching the football game. And he saw a commercial from this company called Wix and Wix said anybody can create a website. And so Fred but Fred’s like I don’t really want to get all into that but hey anybody can build a website. All right let me reach out to some people and then Fred contacts you. And in the back of Fred’s mind he’s like well anybody can do this that’s what Wix told me so this this should be pretty cheap right this should be pretty easy right well no actually Fred if we want to do this right and if you actually want the website did not just sit there and look pretty and you actually wanted to reach goals for your business like bring in traffic that you didn’t earn like maybe organic traffic if you wanted to actually convert the visitors who arrive here into leads and sales. Well we’ve actually got to put some more thought and attention into this website Fred we can’t just whip it up like Wix said on the commercial. So I know and you know now these are all the things we actually have to think about these are the things we actually have to account for these are the things thus we have to bill for and we cannot absolutely cannot do all of these things for $2,500. It is not ever going to work okay so you cannot ever price a five page website at this amount again if you if you don’t want to be stuck in struggling if you want to be a charity then fine be a charity this is how much money you’re donating to charity on every project this is in fact here you go I’m changing this for you to the charity field okay if that number is negative I should put some conditional logic in here if this number is positive it should say profit. If this number is negative it should say charity that’s how much you’re donating to and you don’t get to write this off unfortunately but that’s how much you’re donating to charity every time you do a project that’s not priced the right way all right okay let’s move on to part number three how are we on time 11 12 4 oh I got 20 minutes okay I think I got enough time how are we doing here. Yeah and look at this see people are already thinking the wheels are turning especially after taxes 25 hundred even less you are right okay oh man how are we are we good are we ready to move on to number three number three number three I got a band some spammers hang on band okay BAMming spanners spammers oh with homepage UX not calculating right oh yeah you’re right it’s not oh man these numbers are going to look even worse what is it C2 times B14 let’s just is that do it right that did it right okay all right the numbers look even worse now everything else everything else looks good right this is a quick glance yeah I think everything else looks right okay so that just made that number a little worse all right how we how we looking are you guys liking the direction okay are not said you can always go over time what about factoring the cost of the tools you subscribe to yeah exactly hundred percent that usually goes into the management fees though right so we do every client that we work with has to do a management plan management plan pays for all those tools okay which is that’s why people always tell me like I don’t want to spend $99 a year on automatic CSS will you have no real pricing then like ninety nine dollars a year is too much for you like you’ve got to fix your pricing you let’s just be honest you got to fix your price my clients pay for every tool that I have why should I pay for them I’m doing the work for them right so this is how you set up your your process is in your pricing all right Jason said he’s ready for number three I need a little more hot chocolate I don’t know about you but like a winter month comes along it’s a little cold outside and I’m a sucker for some hot chocolate it’s what it is not too hot anymore because I’ve been talking the whole time but still good still tasty all right let’s get to number three all right number three we do not have to screen share anymore let me go back to main camera all right number three if you want to legitimately raise your prices what you have to do immediately is get out of the mode of pixel pusher and into the mode of consultant and I’m going to tell you exactly what you need to do some of the things you need to do in order to start to make that transition and the other thing you have to do is you have to refuse this is a mindset thing it’s a sales conversation thing you have to refuse to allow your client to see you as a pixel pusher and what you have to understand is that many clients if not most clients when they first come to you they will think unless they came on referral and the person that referred them says this guy’s amazing you got to work with him you know he’ll transform your business okay they set you up for success but most clients are going to come to you thinking that you’re a pixel pusher it’s the threads of the world that saw that wicks commercial and saw that square space commercial and they think anybody can do it these modern tools they’re so easy now anybody can do it and that’s what they’re going to think about you and it’s your job to shift their perspective if you want to make real money you have to shift perspective and then you also have to live in a reality where when they shift perspective it’s not just shifting their perspective it’s because you actually can provide a lot of extra value to them beyond pushing pixels if your skills amount to pushing pixels then you have to do these other seven things like now to get out of that mode but if you’re already not a pixel pusher because you already have some of these other skills you simply need to make sure you’re seen as not a pixel pusher your scene is a consultant your scene as an agency that can do many other things for businesses besides pushing pixels and that actual real projects don’t the actual pushing of the pixels is the least important part of every project okay so what the client is actually thinking they’re buying is actually the least important part the design right that’s really what they think they’re buying the design of the website but what they’re really buying is user experience what they’re really buying is SEO infrastructure market research understanding what the customers want understanding how to craft a narrative understanding how okay all the things we’re about to talk about I’m getting into the list without getting into the list all right number one these are the seven skills seven skills not the only seven but seven skills that you must acquire if you want to raise your prices without faking it till you make it okay I’m not saying raise your prices just because you should raise your prices you actually have to provide more value now this would be above and beyond well what this would usually amount to is this number right here going to something like this or going to something like this and then that automatically pushes a simple five page website where we underestimated the hours to a number like this get it okay so this is how do we get to this number you get through this list right here seven skills seven skills number one discovery you have to be able or somebody on your team has to be able to do discovery work real discovery work so what does that mean keyword research legitimate keyword research for SEO market research so you actually have to look at what the market wants what the market is doing right now trends things like that competitor research you have to be able to you have to know how to pull up what a company’s competitors are doing and be able to evaluate what they’re doing good what they’re doing poorly where the opportunities are the things you’re going to take advantage of okay these are the somebody has to be knowledgeable enough and experience enough to do this kind of work okay yeah the screen does not need to be shared right now it doesn’t there’s no it’s on paper okay we’re just talking you don’t need to see them there’s no numbers for any of this right now okay no numbers for any of this we’re just talking about skills these are skills that you need all right and these are skills they’re going to go into a legitimate website build so the spreadsheet that we just went over mentioned some of these things somebody’s got to be able to do the discovery work so that’s number one if you can’t do it find somebody who can and start building for it and you can make a profit on that even hiring somebody do it every one of these things if you can’t do it yourself you find the somebody who can you bill for it and you bill enough to where the agency still makes money and this deliverable still gets delivered okay all right number two number one was discovery number two is UX design and wire framing you have got to be able to design the experience a user is going to have this involves many different things okay but when it comes to my rights it’s if you want to think about it in broad terms it is how are we going to structure and layout every single page of this website we can’t just start developing things we can’t just start building things we can’t just start slapping things together willy nilly we have a narrative that we want to get across which we’re going to talk about in a second and part of that narrative the way we deliver it involves the layout and structure of a web page right we have to create standable content we have to create easily digestible content we have to break things up we have to make things visual we have to make things interesting we have to make things entertaining we there’s a lot of things we have to make things easy we have to think about how many clicks is going to get take to get from here to here what are the things that people are going to be looking for going back to the market research and the discovery what are users going to be looking for immediately when they arrive how do we put those things front and center how do we make those things easy to find what do we want somebody to focus on the most because we know that if they focus on this one thing we’re more likely to convert them than if they focus on these five other things this is the thought and attention that has to go into discovery and UX design for those of you who don’t even do you actually you’re just slapping lay all this kind of looks good you’re not doing UX design you should be but you’re not and maybe you don’t know UX design enough you need to hire somebody or you need to learn it whatever doesn’t matter to me I’m just saying that in order to get the number we’re talking about the 200 number oh that’s what I was showing that you guys were saying you couldn’t see okay it was just back on the hourly number if you want to get to that $200 an hour or $175 an hour or whatever these are the things that have to be baked in number three intermediate sales copywriting you need to be good enough to craft and narrative this doesn’t mean that you write every single word of copy but you need to be good enough at copy and I’m talking about whoever is overseeing the strategy of this project you are the consultant on the project I see I can be a consultant on a project and never actually touch any of these pieces I can be a consultant on the project for my agency the strategy guy and never create a single wire frame never write a single word of actual copy that goes on to the website never touch the design never develop a single component nothing start to finish it can go out the door without me ever touching it but I am the strategist behind all the things that are happening and in order to do that in order to be that you have to understand sales copywriting enough to understand what the narrative needs to be on every single page and the order that people are going to to experience content in and then you go hire a good copywriter to actually put all that stuff into really good words and then you charge the client accordingly and now they have a website that actually works and converts and sells people okay but intermediate sales copywriting is a skill that all of you need to have in my estimation and by the way let’s go review the first three one is discovery if you’re not selling discovery right now I have a video in the inner circle called how to add $1,500 in revenue to every single website project and the whole premise of that video is selling and doing discovery that for for people who are not already doing it this is a critical piece of every project in order to do your job right you have to do the proper research and planning a lot of you do it you just do it for free because you’re apparently part of your agency mission is to be a charity for the friends of the world okay which we’re not going to do in 2023 we’re going to take these actual deliverables and the value that comes with them and bill for them imagine that imagine that again these are not this is not a crazy breakthrough okay it’s just doing reality is living reality to you ex designed wire framing guys if you’re not selling the UX design part of projects you’re leaving at least 20% additional revenue on the table that you’re just not taking and once again you’re doing the layout planning at some point even if you pull up a website and you just start working from scratch and bricks at some point you are making decisions about the layout of these sections you are doing the bare minimum of UX design to some degree even if you don’t know what you’re doing you’re deciding the layout of these pages you’re just doing it for free you’re not charging for it and on top of not charging for it you’re not putting the actual amount of effort required into it that should go into it if this is a legitimate project so you’ve left 20% revenue on the table right there you’ve left $1,500 minimum on the table by not selling and doing discovery then number three comes along intermediate sales copywriting if you sell copywriting legitimate copywriting for a five page website that actually intends to convert visitors into leads and buyers you’ve probably left it’s thousands thousands of dollars you know two thousand dollars one thousand dollars three thousand dollars it depends on how much you want to value your copywriting but on a small project like that you still left thousands on the table number four funnel design and offer design okay so we’re going in new territory here number four funnel design and offer design good consultants in this industry understand how to build a funnel okay and how to create and craft a really great offer and really powerful calls to action centered around those offers and that funnel and I’ll tell you right now that most businesses that come to you especially the ones in the lower level lower tier startups small businesses okay they don’t know how to build a funnel on the internet they don’t know all they think is my website needs a contact form and here you come along pixel pusher mr. pixel pusher and you’re like oh yeah well the level contact form on that contact page call it today and that doesn’t cut it it does not cut it if you want to be a consultant you say no no hold on hold on hold on let me explain this to you here’s how this works on the internet somebody finds you or we pay to send them to you and they arrive on your website and they don’t know who you are all we know is they’re kind of in your target market right they’re looking for what you offer but we don’t know anything else about them and they don’t know anything about else about you here’s what they’re not going to do they’re not going to read every single word on your website they’re not going to spend a lot of time on your website they’re not just going to fill out your contact form Fred they don’t care about your cat and your favorite color and all the other stuff you wrote on your about page okay none of this is going to work the way that you think it’s going to work they’re going to come here and we have about point eight seconds to captivate them with a headline in order to get them to read the lead paragraph and then what we have is about one and a half seconds in that lead paragraph to captivate them enough to get them to read the next paragraph on the page and if we’re lucky and if we do our job right we can get them to scroll down a little bit and click on one of the services and when they click on the services we can hopefully do our job good enough to where they come to the conclusion that it’s probably worth reaching out to this company however if the contact form is all that there there is the chances that they’re going to do that or slim the none Fred so what we need Fred we need an offer a compelling offer that they see that offer and they’re like I need to take action on that offer right now and then what we’re going to do Fred that might just be a little intro thing right to your company then we got to nurture them then we got to really start the sales process what that sales process is going to look like on the back in Fred is this okay and then you just map all this out for them and then suddenly they start to realize oh man I didn’t know any of this and I was just going to put up a brochure website with a contact form and and if they had done that and if you do do that you’re going to be one of the eight gazillion websites on the internet that look pretty and don’t do a damn thing for the actual business that’s what you’re going to end up with okay but if you can actually design a funnel and you can actually create a compelling offer and you can actually put in some great calls to action and you got some amazing copywriting and you actually have a website where the user experience was planned out now we’re talking now we’re building an actual business asset okay this this is when a client comes to this conclusion they will pay you whatever you want all right if they don’t ever come to this conclusion and they think because they saw you know Fred was watching Wix and he thinks you’re that guy in the commercial you know that anybody guy he not paying you anything at all he don’t want to pay anything he hopes you could just do this for free and it would be good so hopefully I’m getting my point across funnel design and offer design is absolutely critical if you can’t take a business that comes to you and says well we’re killing it offline but we don’t know what we need to do online and you can’t plan a whole funnel for them and a whole offer right they don’t need you they need to go somewhere else honestly they need to go somewhere else because if all you build them is a brochure website with a contact form you know how much money they’re losing because they hired you a lot of money okay number five conversion rate optimization conversion rates see all the first four things that I just spoke to you discovery UX design and wire framing intermediate sales copywriting funnel design and offer design these get you the initial face of the project okay CRO the next three things are really what’s going to make sure that you have a long term relationship with this client okay conversion rate optimization and this adds sprint revenue to these projects over time but you have to be able to approach the client and position this website as a living breathing thing Fred the first version this website is going to be everything we think we that we wanted to be according to what we think is going to work but I’m going to be honest with you Fred we don’t know until we send traffic here we don’t know if the copy is going to work we don’t know if the user experience that we plan is going to work now we have a lot of experience doing this we have a lot of expertise but I’ll never say 100% for sure that we know exactly how your customers are going to behave when they get to this new concept website we don’t know I’ll be honest with you and nobody knows and any marker that tells you they know is lying to you and you should stay far far far away from them what we do know Fred is that we can make it work over time that when we see visitors come to your website we see how they behave on your website and we just see we see the decisions that they make we can watch that we can monitor that we can run tests and experiments we can iterate on this over time and we can dial this website in to where it’s going to be a phenomenal asset for you okay and so Fred understands hey there’s a phase one to this but there’s also going to be additional phases and part of the additional phase is conversion rate optimization let’s get some traffic to this website let’s see how they behave let’s start making changes and dial this bad boy in okay if you’re not doing that you’re not serving your client number six intermediate SEO if your client values SEO and wants SEO and you can switch out PPC here one of the other or both okay but you’ve got to have a way you’ve got to have a way to drive traffic to this person’s business do not be that agency that’s like well Fred we got it for you websites launch baby good luck my friend good luck Fred like where’s my traffic where’s my sales where’s my leads oh Fred we didn’t talk about that I thought you were going to handle that part oh we just designed the website it’s beautiful Fred look at look at the website friends beautiful and friends I don’t care about that though where my where’s my traffic where’s my least where’s my sales you never sold Fred on the on the traffic part of this you never sold Fred on the on the funnel part of this right what were you doing not only did you not do your job you left all that money on the table is that what you’re telling me man don’t leave that money on the table you’ve got to have a way to drive traffic you’ve got to have a knowledge and experience and and all of the goes into it to drive traffic to this website for mr. Fred to get Fred the results he said he wanted in that initial sales call that we had okay and that’s additional revenue and that’s recurring revenue by the way number seven last one and there’s more beyond this but if you do these seven you’re going to be able to dramatically increase your value and increase your prices intermediate analytics you know what’s required to do CRO you know what’s required to do digital advertising you know it’s required to do SEO analytics you can’t do anything if you don’t have numbers and data and you don’t know how to interpret data and you don’t have to set up the analytics properly and you don’t know how to set up the tracking properly and you don’t know how to report the analytics to Fred so that he gets it okay you’ve got to understand intermediate analytics and if you don’t want to dive into analytics you don’t want to know how to set up all that stuff and be technical you got to find somebody who does this is and and let me tell you right here very important these things I’m listing are often seen as peripheral skills I went to public school but we should all know what the word peripheral means it means they’re on the outside and Fred sees them as peripheral skills and peripheral deliverables that’s a mouthful say that five times fast okay if you see these as peripheral and Fred sees them as peripheral no because Fred’s locked in what’s Fred locked in on wicks what he saw on wicks a beautiful website that’s what Fred’s locked in on and you got to get Fred to unlock from that and recognize that all these peripheral things are actually core things they’re actually things that have to be there if this website is going to work okay do you know how many websites get launched and do zero most of them most of them okay so discovery UX design and wire framing intermediate sales copywriting funnel design and offer design conversion rate optimization intermediate SEO PPC some form of drive traffic to this website intermediate analytics those are your seven if you don’t know how to do those things if you don’t know anything about those things you’re going to have a hard time convincing Fred that he needs to spend more money with you that’s just the bottom line okay and you’re going to have a hard time getting Fred’s website to do something to come alive and actually provide a real tremendous benefit to his business just plain and simple that’s how it works okay so you have to stop seeing these as peripheral items stopping yourself as a web designer I design websites no no no I do create websites but I create websites what I really create is a powerful business asset I create the central hub for your digital marketing efforts and we look at all of these things is all of these things are so important to getting you the results that you have that’s how it needs to be positioned and when it’s positioned like that then you can get to the higher rates okay so any questions now we’re going to go into question mode we’ve gone over our core content here all right let’s scroll up a little bit let’s see what’s going on here anyone can move stuff around the page you really need to account for proper UX and UI SEO hosting security etc absolutely all right what do you mean by pixel pushers that’s exactly it it’s somebody that just picks they they just take orders from the client clients like we want to look like this we want that to change and you’re like oh okay all right sure I guess I’ll do that whatever you say mr.
mr. Fred that’s a pixel pusher versus Fred coming to you and being like I recognize that you have a tremendous amount of expertise and experience in this field I want a website that actually grows my business and I trust your decisions and your expertise you need to tell me what we need and how much it’s going to cost that’s the relationship you want to have with clients if a client comes in and they think they know it all and they think they’re going to tell you what to do hey we’re not a good fit if a client comes in and they’re like and guys I’ve I’ve done sales called trainings a lot of sales called trainings and a lot of people take the position on these sales called trainings where it’s like mr. client mr. Fred tell me what you need tell me what you need you already lost you just lost the whole thing you’re you it’s done get off the call you’re done you lost okay can’t salvage this the call is hey mr. Fred I see you have some really you know good goals for your business here’s how we’re going to reach those goals and then you proceed to paint a picture that involves your experience and your expertise by the way mr. Fred I’ve done this for a lot of businesses for a lot of years and I’m very confident that we can make this happen but this is the vision this is what we need to do these are the steps that we need to take and by the way this is what my process looks like okay and we are going to involve you in the process we definitely want your feedback we want to know what you think about some various things but we also want you to respect our experience and our expertise on some things okay so Fred knows he’s involved he’s not just cut out of the picture completely he’s involved but he knows you’re driving the ship and if you’re not dry if you’re letting Fred drive the ship you lost and if Fred ever thinks he’s driving the ship you lost okay but unfortunately that’s how so many people start out their entire sales call hey I’m here at your service mr. Call me Joe pixel pusher what do I need to do what do you want me to do okay like so excited to just push some pixels around and take some orders from Fred you’re not a consultant right the minute you see yourself as a consultant and get them to see you as a consultant it’s a completely different relationship at completely different price points okay all right um let’s see remember uh all caps questions in all caps okay let me get through I was back I was scrolled up too high any recommendation on UI UX trainings and copywriting trainings that you can suggest um I mean I’ve got some plans I’ve done a few in the inner circle I’ve got some additional planned off the top of my head I don’t really know there isn’t a singular course you can take there isn’t and you can’t go to college and take you know UX design you can’t read one book it’s like a discipline it’s like anything else it would be like what’s the one jujitsu video I can watch I don’t know there isn’t one you have to you have to you have to watch a gazillion of them you have to go to class every day you got you got to you know it takes time it takes effort takes um a lot of inputs okay um so it’s hard to like recommend something and the worst thing is you really want to avoid is like hey I watched one great UX training and now I’m a UX expert right like that can’t be the thing either so these are areas of discipline and study that you have to be aware of and constantly learning on I will read another UX UI book in 2023 just like I read one in 2022 in 2021 in 2020 just like I’ll watch another course on SCO and see what people are doing in 2023 just like I’ll watch another UI course just like all like you get it it’s like ongoing at all times you have to be bringing in these inputs because also all the stuff that we do changes constantly so if you’re watching a video from five years ago is it even relevant today what are we doing in 2023 then there’s the forward thinking nature of it because every thread that I bring in I’ve got ideas of how things should work I’ve got ideas that I know will probably work but I also have some new ideas and I want threads little website to be a little bit of a testing ground and I’m not going to go you know crazy with all my new ideas but I’ll sneak a new idea in there and I’ll see hey can I innovate what happens when I try to innovate right is this new idea that I had is it is it work does it knock it out of the park and if it does amazing if it doesn’t okay scrap that didn’t work right but there’s a you should be trying to innovate in this regard as well and you can learn a tremendous amount from your own experimentation and your own ideas so it’s not always what somebody else said or what a course told you to do or what content you know outline for you sometimes it’s just let me use my own brain what do I know about marketing what do I know about SCO what do I know about this unless formulate an experiment and let’s do that in a real world environment and see what kind of results that we get so you can be the thought leader in some of this all right let’s see okay Jason says there’s a post in the intercircle where people can put a bunch of links for UX UI Marx says CRO equals happy customers recurring revenue absolutely okay I don’t know how to sell the traffic guys if you the other thing about this is you can’t just know these seven things you have to be able to sell these seven things and I do have sales trainings in the intercircle that goes through selling how every sales call should be structured okay and that is very it’s one of the most powerful trainings or set of trainings in the intercircle and I also by the way have done some sales call trainings and some mock sales calls like with real people selling me and I’m going to publish those in the intercircle so that you can hear a real sales call and then my feedback on it and you can learn a lot from those as well let’s see okay mark Peters wants to buy a black belt go for it my man amazon.com you can probably get one refactoring UI is a great read something great for copy story brand is another great concept yep yeah there’s a story brand is a good UX slash copy framework.
Coursera has great UX UI yep you can get look there’s there’s good stuff all over the place you just have to be knowing the areas you need to be studying in and then actually go and do the study and then put it into practice. Can you give us a quick example of an elevator pitch on what you do as a business consultant versus a web designer that’s it I just gave you the elevator pitch it’s I don’t just design websites and what the actual design of a website is one very small part of what makes a website successful what we actually do is and then you list it out right all the thing we just went through a whole list that’s that’s the elevator pitch that’s how you get a client to understand and you kind of tell them you know it’s a you can frame things up right see that little plug okay not just get so you can frame things up in the sense that like you let them know Fred let me tell you let me tell you something about websites right there are billions of them and most of them don’t do anything they’re just brochure websites that look pretty they sit there and they they don’t get you know any any visitors really like traffic is very dismal no lead certainly and you know you’re not generating any revenue what kind of website do you want right I mean do you do like if it’s beautiful but it doesn’t do anything for you do you consider that a win or do you consider that a loss oh well Fred’s like well you know I’m not a dummy so I consider that to be a loss okay so we both recognize then that we can’t just build you we can’t just focus on the design right of the website we have to do many other things that are going to make this website successful here’s what those things are okay now you don’t have to make it that literal for the for the most part like when you’re on sales calls the natural flow of a sales call he’s going to get that point as you go through the sales call the the way I design a sales call the things I choose to ask and most of it is just questions I ask questions but the line of questioning is designed in a certain way and what happens is there’s a point at which the person I’m talking to comes to the conclusion that they didn’t see any of this shit on wicks sorry they didn’t see any of this stuff on wicks and they didn’t think about any of this stuff needing to happen and there is no way that they can do it themselves and there is no way they can just hire anybody to get this done I need the guy that’s painting the picture for me right now because he knows what he’s talking about and he’s talking about some really important things and I didn’t even think about any of this before this call started that is the conclusion that they come to if you ask the right questions in the right order and you paint the right picture it is a natural you don’t have to convince them you don’t have to sell them you ask a certain questions in a certain order I call them checkpoints I’m trying to hit certain checkpoints throughout this call and the call can go in many different ways but if I hit these checkpoints the client will come to the conclusion that they can’t hire anybody they can’t use wicks they can’t do it themselves their only option is to hire the guy that just painted the picture for them because I guarantee they go even if they look at other agencies and in fact I encourage them they’ll tell me hey and by the way big businesses so you want the fifty thousand dollar project the seventy five thousand dollar those mandatory first of all you’re not talking to the owner you’re talking to a marketing director or you’re talking to a sea level person and they are not allowed in almost all cases to take the first bid that they get they have to go get other bids and they’ll tell me that and I already know that right and they’ll already say we’ve gotten four proposals five proposals whatever okay and I say good I’m glad you’re looking around that smart to do in fact I want you to do that I want you to look at every proposal that you get and compare it to the one I’m going to send you and when you’re on sales calls with people I want you to pay attention to the questions that they ask you versus the questions that I asked you what things are they choosing to focus on versus what what things am I choosing to focus on because I know that most of the time on these other calls they’re not going to talk about anything’s I talk about and when they get on the next call and they’re and they get done with that call they’re going to be like man all that stuff Kevin was talking about never came up on this call but all that’s just so important why aren’t we talking about it and it’s like a red flag in their mind and they’re like that’s not right hmm of something’s missing here they were educated on my call to know what they should be thinking about and focusing on they get on these other calls they read these other proposals none of that’s there it’s natural red flags like what’s missing and so then they get back on a call with me and they’re like oh let’s clarify some business let’s ask more questions let’s talk some more about this and now I got them right they came back to me they didn’t come back to anybody else they came back to me so it’s you don’t even have to sell you just have to ask the right questions and talk about the right things and care about the right things and care about their goals okay that’s it and it’s done it’s a wrap now they might not be able to afford it okay there’s those situations and by the way you shouldn’t be closing 100% of every sales call if you’re closing 100% of your sales calls you’re undercharging you’re saying the right things congratulations you’re saying all the right things but you’re undercharging so you should be getting denied by 20 30% of the people you talk to you basically because they’re like we just can’t we can’t invest that much money now there’s situations where you can craft the payment plan a certain way so that even if they don’t have the money now there’s different way that they can pay you okay there’s those kinds of opportunities you can get creative in in the way that you structure the payment options but by and large if 100% of people are saying yes to you you’re undercharging okay plain and simple all right guys I don’t know I got to get out of here hopefully you guys got a lot of value out of this hopefully it it kind of changes your perspective it gives you some new things to focus on it motivates you it gives you energy what was the tool for cross browser testing that Kevin mentioned a few minutes ago poly pain poly pain okay I will check the hey throw up some likes if you like this hey hit the like right now before you dip out drop a comment for me again if you have questions if you put them in the comments I will come back later and I will answer them if they’re in they can’t be in the chat though they have to be in the comments I can’t really access or interact with the chat after the stream is done so they have to be in the comments area and I will come back and answer questions in the comments area but drop those like drop those comments I love you guys and I’ll be back very soon not next week I’ll be out I’ll be back a week after for web design with dummies we’ll do a final web design with dummies before the end of the year and then I’ll be back in January after that okay all right love you guys peace